United States, David Beer, Tom Brokaw discussed on Michael Brown


Give me a call coming up tomorrow at ten troubleshooter. Tom Martino on six thirty. I also have a Hispanics should work harder. Symbolize that's one of the things I've been saying for a long time. That they ought not to be codified in their communities, but make sure that all of their kids are learning to speaking feel comfortable communities, and that's gonna take outreach on both sides. Frankly. Poor Tom Brokaw. Got a lot of blowback for that statement. We talked about it a little bit last night. In fact, that I guess I pointed out that, you know, new immigrants don't always speak English. Very well. But the next generation generally does that was the case in my family with my great grandparents coming from. What is now Ukraine back? Then it was it was Russia. They were German, and my great grandmother did not speak English. She she learned to speak it. Okay. By the time. She died, and she never learned to write it, my grandparents, however, could speak German and English and my dad could speak. I think he told me he could only do the swear words in German, and as for me, I can probably order a beer and German, and that's about it that seems to be the process with most was most immigrants, and I when people talk about Hispanic. Immigrants. It seems to me you're making a broad statement about a lot of different people, including Cuban-Americans, you know, south southwest Hispanics, many of whom their families predate nationhood there. There's also Puerto Ricans who are Americans, and there's a lot of different people groups, including recent Americans, or at least recent immigrants from Central America that are just in the process of assimilation. So I wanted to bring on some someone to talk about it. Because there were a number of comments that came up on our text line at five seven seven three nine also very thoughtful letter from David Peterson who said, hey, isn't the the the dropout rate for Hispanic kids and indicated that there might be a problem with simulation with that. I bring on David beer, he is an immigration analyst with the buyer. Okay. Sorry. I was thinking about German beer buyer. David buyer. And he's with the Cato Institute, you could take check him out at Kato. It's fabulous libertarian think. Tank in Washington DC sorry about the name David buyer. But welcome to the show. You had it. Right. The first time actually I did. It's beer Dutch. German name. So you had the pronunciation just right? Nice. Nice. Nice. That's a that's a that's a great. That's a great last name to have. Right. Because there is a good thing. Yes. It is. And the beer in German. It's Embiid Bitta, which is you know, a beer place. So David beer in this case. You wrote an interesting piece, and then you were quoted also this morning in a CNN dot com piece that perhaps what Tom Brokaw had to say about immigrants may not have been all that. Correct. Yeah. I mean, really the fundamental problem is that people look at the fact that we have so many recent immigrants in the United States, and here Spanish more as an indication that immigrants in general are not assimilating. And because of that that ultimately leads the false conclusion. Really distorts your perspective. When you have you see recent arrivals coming in? And yeah, they don't speak English and many of them have low levels of education. They're performing lower wage jobs, and that ultimately informs the perspective that well over time. People are not assimilating. But in reality, it's just the fact that you have so many people who are coming in from abroad that you are aware of people speaking, another language or performing certain types of jobs. From those countries. Do an interesting thing in your paper. I put your paper up at my Facebook page, which is Krista L K for the L stands for lucky. I'm kidding sense. For Lynn, but you can take it out there. Also at Christopher's my Twitter account. I've got got the piece up there as well. Do kind of an interesting comparison between I immigrants the people who who come here and their kids, and there really is a significant difference between those two generations is they're not. It's huge. I mean, it's it's really lighten day if you look at any measure of economic or social assimilation, you know. Of course, the first generation, you know, they're coming as adults. You know, they speak a certain language their education levels, really set for life. And that really determines their economic outcomes in many respects, the second generation is where you see the growth, and if you're looking in particular at central Americans who are now the largest group of people who are being apprehended at the border and really the focal point of so much of the political conversation is about what to do these people the second generation for central Americans shows, no difference between them and other natives when it comes to educational attainment poverty levels after childhood, of course, growing up in your parents home as the second generation person, you're likely to be more likely to grow up in poverty, but they're actually making larger games than other natives in adulthood in reducing their in poverty level. So a variety of different metrics, you can look at and all of them show huge game. For that. Second generation, you know, which is another example, of course, that's commonly referenced ninety seven percent of central Americans Central American ancestry who were born in the United States, speak English. Well, and or better, and you know that that's a monumental game. Between the first and second generation talking with David beer, he has an immigration analyst at the Cato Institute, and a listener also by the name of David wrote in saying that that perhaps the graduation rates of Hispanic Americans which are lower than Caucasian Americans. That is an indication that perhaps simulation is not taking place. How would you respond to that? Well, there's a couple of different things you can focus on here when it comes to Central American central Americans in particular. There isn't a difference in terms of the high school graduation rates for adults, you know, who were born here. So ten percent of natives have dropped out of high school. If they're over the age of twenty five ten percent of Central American natives have dropped out of high school, really when you look at the overall population, you know, immigrants and their kids it's higher because you have so many high school people without a high school degree coming over in the first place that it creates the perception that there are more dropouts if you do look at other, you know, the entire immigrant population as a whole there are more high school dropouts in that population. But not in the second generation know, I think some of the frustration. I I know talking to my mom's. Husband, and he said, I don't wanna have to press one for English. And I think there is a a an understandable frustration among Americans that so many businesses and government agencies. Not just those providing emergency services, which I think you could make a point that that having a Spanish language might be. You know might be a good idea if it's an emergency kind of thing. But you know, they don't want to have to to press one free Anderson when English to be the default and somebody who's traveled a fair amount. I I would say that you're doing a disservice to English language learners by providing Spanish, I say that as a traveler because when I am somewhere where I cannot use English. There is no English anywhere. I am forced to start using the language of the land. I I start to see words I start to recognize those words, and I learned that language faster. Are we not doing a disservice by allowing people to press two for Spanish? Well, I'm not I'm not one to tell private companies what they should do. Of course, they're going to provide options for people who don't speak English because that their economic motivation is to do that the question is whether that's having a significantly negative effect on language rates, particularly we're interested in the second generation, you mentioned no one really has a an expectation that people in adulthood are going to learn English. And and the reality is it's not because people assimilate from their peers, and you know, through the education system and so forth. The second generation of immigrants are learning English through the socialization process with other people born in in the United States. One of the things that I think that might be arguable is whether or not kids are getting enough English and squash. You've pointed out most kids do a merger with good language skills. But looking back on my grandmother's experience, she was actually they were forbidden to use German in school. She lived in a town where there were a lot of German immigrants. And so the result is she ended up being able to speak German from home reading right German with no accent, and speak and write English with no accent. So basically being perfectly fluent in two languages because of that. Do you think it's a possibility that some schools might want to encourage more English English language, use not just among second-generation? But also first generation kids that come over here with their parents that are learning English for the first time. You know, it's interesting. You mentioned the experiences of of, you know, banning German in schools, and and so forth in the early. Twentieth century. There's actually been a good amount of research done in that period and actually showed that backfired on assimilation interest because it really created some resentment in German communities in those states who felt like they were being singled out they were being treated as that. Maybe they're not loyal to be United States. And ultimately it had the effect of reducing the amount of simulation that occurred. So I think you you really need to be careful in this context of trying to sort of micromanage the socialization of immigrants and trying to plan out society from the top down. So I think people who are concerned about assimilation should recognize that really. The American society, that's so attracted the people over time. But it it does work on its own. And I don't think it really needs a boost from the federal government or or any level of government. Really? That's a great. That's a great answer. And I do know that it my grandmother resented it. That's for sure. So what you're saying is let kids learn English at school, and it learned with their peers learn from TV don't feel like you have to sort of force it on them because they're going to learn it anyway. That's right. And I think that's what we're seeing already happened, you know, in in immigrant communities across the United States. They're learning English. But really, they're they're learning what it means to be American. You know, you're seeing immigrants disproportionately enroll in the military or sign up for the military, and and and wants to serve this country that that their their parents came to the children of of immigrants really are, you know, patriotic Americans, they're not, you know, having some divided loyalties about this country. I also think it's interesting I and you're the expert on immigration, but what I have read is that as we have had waves of immigrants. There's always been prejudice against those immigrants as well as concerns about assimilation. Whether we're talking I rish immigrants Italian immigrants even German immigrants that this is a bit of a there's a kind of natural nee. Nativist if you will concern that seems to fade as as that wave crests and diminishes it in your studies is that what you find. Oh, absolutely. There was a major study done by the national academies sciences on immigrant assimilation in nine states. And how it's going and it found that really there's not a difference between what's going on today. What's going on then? And there's not a difference in the reaction by native born Americans to immigration either. We really have the same exact concerns, and and troops that come out every time you have a new wave. I think it's interesting that you focused on Catholic immigrants, for example. I mean, they were just a tremendous amount of concern about them, creating a parallel society for themselves apart apart from Protestant American society where they had their own schools. And you know, they were teaching things that were not align to the broader, you know, religious and cultural values, and perhaps they had divided. Loyalties and all of these things. And now today, you know, proprio schools are seen as you know, these places that are producing Ivy league level education. And and you know, we don't really see the divide between Protestants and Catholics in the United States. The way we did in the early twentieth century at all in fact, you know, you really have been working together in many respects, you know, on various issues, whether political or otherwise I've seen some of the editorial cartoons as the late nineteenth century that would be considered even scandalous by today's standards ridiculing Catholics. And so, yeah, you're right. That this this seems to be a response to waves of immigrants, and and and customs which seem foreign to to to the majority but over time it does diminish at David beer at.

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