Charlie Manson, Los Angeles, Lapd discussed on Night Call
Da Guy who signs the attorneys. I interviewed him and and he said it was the biggest mistake in my career. Assign that case that created that monster. Yeah I mean I think what you do find new angle about the case ace. Is You really address. The sort of police corruption and sort of the sort of the general incompetency of the LAPD PD is one of the. That's what I was always trying to balance. Is it incompetence or is it deliberate and I had this one retired. Da Liuhua neck. Oh told me this us and it was so important at that stage of my reporting he said you know I'm looking at this is shown man's federal parole file where he kept getting arrested released arrested released and I go to a lot of freedom of Information Act request to told me like two years to get it all I brought it to him and he was literally dying trying to remember what the disease was but it was not a respirator and he's wheezing and he's like chicken shit. This is all chicken shit. What you mean Mr? What goes we know? This can sometimes be explain splaying Bhai incompetence but this was intentional. They were releasing him when they should've not only violated his parole convicted him then sent him back with the Newton. New Year's added on to make that connection of like well like the. LAPD would probably be stoked if people were doing crimes in the name of white supremacy because that's also part about the setup of the you know you really frame it in this great way. Because I think think the sixties it's like the cool people are always very over represented and the idea that everybody was like you know with it and progressive. It's like a lot of people were Super Square and they wanted to crush. Whatever else was happening? I guess Tarintino kind of God that in his movie because Leo DiCaprio Brad Pitt's character old. Holly I Arianna Reagan. Inter for this Eve baboots book and she wrote this piece about the Godfather and in it. There's this quote where she's like everybody in L. A.. Once guys who look like Al Al Pacino because in La like guys who look like Brad Pitt or everywhere and they pump your gas. I'd better exactly what with that movie gets right. Yeah I want to read my book. I wonder her for four. She's great. I mean I think for me that was probably the section of the book acquire. I started to go galaxy. Mind the whole section about the sheriff's Office and And all you know repeated Opportunities the people had to put Manson in jail between the parole surveillance they had on the red documents showing that they knew he was coming back from the bay. A area the day that Sharon tate was killed with this runaway girl and all that was correct except that he was really coming back from big Sur which is just a little bit below the bay the area but all that stuff was suppressed not shared with the defense and one thing that always bugged me about the case was I was like how could they squad on this land for so long without out anyone getting mad. 'cause like one thing I know about unoccupied land in Los Angeles is people get fucking furious occupied. And you're not allowed to also I. I mean they had visited so many times and he was on parole and they knew that he had like an Arsenal is just absolutely not underage girls drugs. A machine guns And hadn't when the cops or sheriffs would come onto spun Ranchi threaten their lives and he said when he lost the mission for. I forget what it's called the banana clips for machine-gun Michingan fulop a Dune buggy. He told the cops he wanted it back. He called. He's on federal parole. Nothing made sense. And that's the famous line of Manson's there's there's no sense makes sense. Well yeah like putting it in the context of all these other sort of operations that were going on at the time to discredit the counter culture in student protests and activism and the Black Panthers and all of that it makes you know I would hesitate to say like your thesis. Because I think they're still. I think there are many questions that are are left open at the end of the book but in general the premise. That like it would be very possible if one wanted to at this time to create an example Out of somebody like Manson like figure To you know spook everybody out of the out of the sixties basically And it it. It doesn't feel so far. Fetched When you look at stuff. That's actually on the record that happened on that time you do a great job of building it of being. Here's the thing that like Kinda didn't seem right and I went into it more and like found all these bugs under the rock. So that by the time you get to lake. Here's the JFK. assassination sound as crazy just say. Hey like Go with me here because you're coming at it like you're not a true crime person. That was hardest. Part of the book was trying trying to figure out the structure. And that's where I got gifted with a fantastic collaborator. This young guy. Dan Who now has a bestselling book with prints out he. He wrote with France the beautiful one thing about writing that thing with Prince Prologue for the book I mean he got him damn because Prince died right so you know everything got halted because the family was dealing. I don't WANNA say fighting says don't say fighting but they were fighting over the estate and the book got Fro Stopped. so He'd probably he thought a year or two years. I'm like Dad and it took me twenty five and he was just so kind on a poor self possessed and not in arrogant way. He said we'll figure out how to do it in a year or two and he helped me with. I couldn't have done it without him this because I had lost my. You need someone to come in at a certain point for you and tell me what I mean because I lost perspective on what was most important. What wasn't we we still do? We're talking about possibly doing A second book and I was telling you guys earlier there might be a podcast so I mean there's so much stuff that I do want to get out there into the world that's sitting right now in Georgia but at least I got this much because there was a lot of years that I thought Oh my God. I'm going to get run over by a bus family's not I told them what's important. What's not but there's too much that they're just gonNA crazy brother? Put it adopts to get rid of the paranoid while you were working on it. I never really. I mean people everybody asks me that infect you with the paranoia has the only thing I was really a frightened of I mean in the first couple years of drug is that I was investigating. Who are the big dealers at the time? They were making some pretty serious serious threats but I think one of them. I have seen in the book. I took them to Cocos for lines. And he's you know he's in a wheelchair and I have to lift him. Yeah Trolley Taco. And he's you know he used to be a very big strong man but he was eighty and dying and he's threatening me while I'm putting him from my car to the wheelchair. Sure I will fucking kill you right Charlie. I could just drop you on the drive away. You've reached that point too. You're like I realized that when someone said they were going to kill Hilmi or Sumi that man I had gotten but then scared me I mean some of the stuff I learned that he had done and as I learned I hope it comes out in the book okay. I started realizing I wasn't dealing with somebody who was possibly I. I thought I was dealing with some that. Just wanted to make a lot more money by having a more sensational okay. Then I realized it was something much more sinister than that dark and then I saw what he did to other people who caught him and stuff I mean he went full full on attacked again. Like trump kind of parallels between him and Manson to. They were the same age. Yeah I could never decide who was crazy. They were thirty four thirty two thirty three. I think when the trial starts but there were born the same. Yeah it's such a different version. I know yeah but just that violent male ego the same you kind of have to be a sociopath to be either a cult leader or district attorney. It's true yeah. was there any point at which you just wanted to stop every other day. I won't you describe describe you had one hundred and ninety I think binders in your amendment and a whiteboard with the word Manson in the middle line going out. I thought it was very brave of you to put that like in the a photo section and you know my. Dan went through some of my personal pictures he said. I want a progression of photos from you aging aging through this. Yeah and he said. I want to have a picture of the White Board and I said I've got like I think just the first year so you don't see it with like twenty pages ages a paper up around the white word you know beyond the perimeter and I just said you know what I wanna be. That's what happened. I created a whiteboard. Boorda's part of the story. Yeah we'll put it in so But Yeah I used to. I never once I think seriously considered stopping but I would think what if and then I just thought how can I get out of bed I would have wasted yeah. It wasn't just that I also wanted people be accountable. You know I wanted to report what I found to set. I know. It sounds real presumptuous but to set the record straight chasing people before they die. Yeah yeah that's kind of the thing about the fiftieth anniversary is you're like I got to get these people while they're still alive and then at the end you're like I have all this evidence like doesn't mean anything. Yeah the people that could have been held accountable or Dad. I know a lot of people have accused me. I mean there's a lot of people who were not happy with this book blog people. Oh Oh yeah yeah. The Manson Black People Internet people. But also people who are part of world defenders. But I've had some serious. They've they've come here and threats that I know this person really is a member of the family because I said at one response and I know I'm not supposed to respond but I'm like you have to be manses. This is relative because you're the threats are identical to his. Just as a member of the family I was like which one exactly this story like You know we were friends with Karina. Longworth did the pocket. You must remember Series on Charlie Manson and I think like it attain her series and a lot of stuff that we've read like this is really understood as has been understood historically as like a Hollywood story Hollywood Crime Story and obviously your book goes goes into how it goes a lot further than that I mean. It's maybe it's a California story. Yeah it's definitely a California story but I kind of wonder like having gone through all this reporting and having talked to all these people and gotten such a kind of cross section of all these different places that people were at in the culture in this time period and like since fan. Can you still even think of it as a Hollywood story or is it transcended. I'm in a kind of ruined me for having any kind of perspective on it as something. That just wasn't so sinister in deep even if I couldn't prove it can only present a circumstantial case but it made me lose such faith and stuff that I used I. I was never naive. I've always been kind of raised by lefty parents and But I and I always was a little bit careful about authority but at this point now I feel like I don't trust cops. I don't trust the judicial system. I don't trust the federal okay though I guess it is. Yeah realize I mean you know we're talking about the DA earlier like the current Da. Avella like hasn't prosecuted any cops who've murdered anybody For like a decade or something. It's just like yeah. If you put your trust in those systems to sort of do you really do a good job also talking about the connections between the LAPD the L. A. Times again something I would have soc- wants you know. Yeah that makes sense and there was more there too. I wish uh-huh well the L. A. Times I started looking into like the guy who founded the La Times guy. Otis Schindler. Yeah Citizen Kane. Yeah I was like a hers thiamine. Publish whatever served his interest communist tests and the power structure in Los Angeles in the late sixties was him. I'm at the La Times already. who was a very right wing mayor? Reagan who was the governor and Nixon became president in January. I mean he was elected in the in the fall but he was inaugurated in January sixty nine ever younger the DA. who was in charge of the case events was working for him was an axe sky? which is what the CIA of all out he was a spy and FBI and not that that makes him automatically really suspicious? But when you look at everything else I lay out about what was hidden and all that he had to be part like the center of that will the only person to take an optimistic viewpoint away from this book. Given all the effort they did put into trying to crush leftism and crush counterculture in Los Angeles like to me the fact that it always comes back in some way. You know that you can't crush it Ashley diverse reasonably out from La. So I have a the in defending it against being like well. I was also like it was satisfying to me..