Influenza, Pneumonia, Illness discussed on Probably Science
Again with rhinovirus coal viruses nasal congestion runny nose. Okay and Cough. That might be associated with large volumes of production of nasal secretions are the common aspects of things for coughing but generally people are not sure too breath because the lung. The lungs are not affected by the typical Rhino viruses. That cause cause coal Influenza the there's a lot of symptoms that are very similar between influenza and the new corona virus and those include fever and again real fever that might be one hundred one to one hundred three degrees. The flu tends to come on more relatively abruptly over a span of twenty four hours Hence the French term The La- grip and my French is not great here but people are were kind of knocked knocked down relatively abruptly and felt fever and chills their muscles eight significantly they would also with the flu have some nasal congestion but not as much as a typical cold they would also have a sore throat And and and both a sore throat and rhinovirus can have a sore throat and so does the corona virus but And coffin be there but again usually related to the respiratory nasal secretions and not necessarily invasion to lung now. There are a small percentage of individuals. And there's probably about one percent so that can develop influenza pneumonia where these shortness of breath and persistent cough may persist but the muscle aches of influenza are really very characteristic and they tend to last for two or three days so turning to the corona virus there may be muscle aches and small percentage of of of individuals but they tend to be relatively transient. And maybe only lasts for about twenty four hours The CORONA VIRUS. Illness tends to be right in between the flu. And the and the rhinovirus in terms of its Beginnings here so the symptoms come on Hispaniola somewhere between twenty four to seventy two hours. If you'RE GONNA develop clinical illness what's missing often is yet. There is off. There's a sore throat. But what's missing? Is these decree of nasal runny runny nose type of characteristics and there's more of a propensity to have a a dry cough again because the virus tends to have a little bit more of a propensity to be in the loans and invade the loans So is this invasion of the lung. Something that makes it more contagious. 'cause you're more likely to then converts into this. Aerosol Spreadable Arizo. Well that's a good question. That's a good question. I'm not sure I can tell you with quantitative certainty that that's a truism because if if you're if you're sneezing and you have a rhinovirus and you're sneezing you have the rights and you're GonNa you're gonNA generate enough of a contagion base spread. Hypothetically if you're coughing and you have influenza in the lungs are not involved in the same is true for rhinovirus that you might be potentially less contagious but this is the involvement of the lungs is is is really the reason that the metality rate from the corona virus is somewhere between ten to twenty five times that of a influenza. Because as I Lou. Very few people get influenza. Pneumonia and the death rate from influenza again is somewhere between a tenth to a half of one percent but the death rate from the corona virus The new corona virus is going to be somewhere between two to three percent. And we're not going to know exactly what that death-ray is completely because until we see what the how the United States healthcare system really responds to the challenge of early diagnosis and management of this here but again across the world. Now the numbers are somewhere between a two to three percent and those numbers all sorts of very by the the health status of the individual. So the younger you are the more like your immune system is likely to be able to manage the illness again on. Unfortunately sixty doesn't seem to be very elderly these days but sixteen above and eighty and above the mortality rates tend to be higher again partially. Because as you get older there are other what we call co Morbidity so people have heart disease can't handle the infection people have underlying lung disease like chronic obstructive lung disease emphysema and they have less reserve and then they're more like the more likely to die. Starting it for and I was just GonNa say I've I've heard that. They're pretty vast differences in the fatality rates in the Chinese population. Because of things like smoking. What other exacerbating factors have you heard about this? Well see smoking will not be in your favor. That that's for sure and the reason for that is just just a general The smoke so in the lungs And we actually talk about this in my course and I think we actually illustrate this in the what's what's called respiratory epithelium and they have there are are hairs. Ha Irs stand up in the linings of the lungs others also the hairs in the linings of the nose. But what happens is when germs get into the lungs the This these these hairs act together. Like a like a broom to try to sweep out microorganisms. And get them out of out of the lungs and if you're if you're smoker Again people have different degrees of smoking. But there's more likely to be a non coordination of these hairs and there's more likely to be a small amounts of damage in the functioning of these sweeping hairs to get out of the lungs and that's that's one reason why smoking Smoking is a additive risk factor for death but also in China people people really smoke. For long periods of time they develop what's called chronic obstructive pulmonary disease or emphysema which actually destroys the number of air exchange sacks sac chaos in the lung and then also reduces the ability of an individual to handle of a virus or any type of infection. Along this comb abilities an interesting thing because I I know there is not yet in any kind of antiviral treatment for this either but I did read that are giving some patients with this Antibiotics which seems counter intuitive Don't work against viruses. They only look against bacteria. But it's to Avoi- it's to mitigate these secondary infections or these these other things that go along with it right. Yeah well that's actually So that that's interesting even before. The outbreak of the Corona Corona virus for the first time ever the Infectious Disease Society of America recommended in the guidelines for pneumonia earlier. This fall that patients that are that are diagnosed with hospitalized. Influenza should even though we know it's a virus and we actually have antiviral viral medications to give to patients that are hospitalized with influenza. But they also concomitantly should be given antibacterial therapy and the reason for that is because there is somewhere between ten to twenty percent risk that the virus influenza virus. Does what cigarette smoking does it? Destroys this these hair cells and they functioning capacities of the lung to clear clear germs? And it's more likely that bacteria will actually get trapped inside the lungs and cause a secondary bacterial infection. In fact it's thought and nobody knows the exact numbers that maybe up to fifty percent of all the mortality from the one thousand nine hundred eighteen in great influenza pandemic was due to secondary bacterial infections. And not necessarily due to violence of the virus itself. There's no doubt that the virus was a a stronger flavor of influenza virus and people have studied that are continuing to study that but the secondary bacterial. You gotta remember not only do we not know it was a virus but we knew about bacteria but we didn't have antibiotics in one thousand nine eighteen so if you if you develop the secondary bacterial infection you were you. Were going to die so getting back to the original question is that yes indeed. So I think what what's happening. Now is these practitioners and practitioners are extrapolating from the recommendations now from influenza that if you have the new corona virus that we want to reduce the risk of any secondary infection here. So it's not. We don't know what the numbers are compared to influenza but if somebody's getting antibiotics antibacterial -biotics. That would be the reason for giving them that makes sense Another thing I read. Sorry just sort of use you as fact checking But is in his right to get to talk to an expert The one of the routes that looking at to develop a treatment involves taking antibodies from recovered. All recovering patients is that. Is that a common procedure or is this something. That's a relatively new method a lot. So so we talk about this in the in the lecturer on infection and immunity on the immune system so antibodies are Specific proteins that are produced by the body by US white blood cells that are circulating in the in the blood and also that are in the the spleen and lymph nodes and these proteins are produced specifically for the invader Here so hence the corona virus. And so if you if you have these proteins that can kind of what they do. Is they kind of the analogy? Would be they. They glue down the virus and make it easier for our own. Immune system to target a removing the virus from the lungs moving the virus from the from the mucous membranes. Zimmer removing the virus from potentially even while it's trans transferring if it goes into the blood so getting back to your question here yes. This is a hypothetical means of trying to improve the outcomes for this. This would be likely targeted for severely ill patients in the intensive care unit. That are on ventilators where we're actually pulling out several different modes of treatment to try to try to save individuals. This is not really a completely new concept. This is called passive immunization and this concept actually dates back to the pre antibiotic era before we had penicillin because the most common cause of death from pneumonia was will call pneumococcal bacteria pneumonia and since we didn't have antibiotics they were trying to take serum from individuals who survived pneumonia and give it to patients to to try to save them from pneumonia before antibiotics but again jumping back again Several years to to to my course in in Africa when Ebola was Was RAVAGING THE LARGEST BOLA outbreak Again there were survivors from Bola and they harvested blood from survivors. And then try to try to give it to the sickest of individuals for for treatment purposes. So there's not not really new concept. It goes back nearly eighty years. But it is one of the means passive passive amid immunization. Is something that that still may play a role. In trying to mitigate this pandemic the guy. I'd love to talk a bit about sort of you. Know those sort of social distancing corentin and what we're doing right now right now. Andy and I are in different cities as a you. Of course we're recording over the Internet phones. But how much of a difference do these practices? Make Him. What's what should everyone be doing right now? Sure so there certainly is a lot on the on the Internet now regarding in mathematical models of what could be apocalypse. Doomed say or the possibility of really You know good outcomes from social distancing and cocooning so so. The goal of this whole process of social distancing is to reduce that number of infections or to spread out the infections over time. So there's something called. The doubling time of the virus mentioned that the virus typically would transmit it to somewhere between two or three hundred individuals but the doubling time for the For the virus it went unchecked. If you went from one person to another person to another person to another person you had a susceptible human is going to be somewhere between two to three days but if you can separate those with the virus and not allow it to get into other humans in a longer period of time or not at all then the if you if you do if you do the math and you do the arithmetic than the number of people that would be infected would be less or if not the number of people that would be less again. This is what you hearing a bit on the news about flattening the curb. So what we don't want to see is a an an exponential rise in the number of cases because that's going to bring on an exponential rise in the number of people that need to be hospitalized an exponential increase in the number of people that will have to be in intensive care units potentially fighting for their life and fighting for ventilators. And this is not you know. The situation is kind of playing out in in Italy in track. Tragically in in Italy right now. So we're trying to learn a little bit from the lessons of that that dynamic so the goal is to if people are going to be infected is to to spread out the need for hospitalization so spread out the need for hospital care to spread out the need for intensive care units and possibly ventilators. It may not come to that. I mean we're in. We're actually doing a social experiment right now but again in certain areas in in the in the Seattle Area. This scenario is beginning to play out. And we're I'm I'm hopeful that the situation is not coulda could play out in in many American cities Or Not may not play out at all but this is the reason that the social distance this is also. An people may not understand that. It's the reason that schools daycare centers are closed. It's not because children are going to be sick because we actually surprisingly this particular virus does not children can get sick but they don't get sick like adults do and but they still could have the virus. They can still spread the virus even though they either have minor symptoms or no symptoms at all. So children are the perfect What we call vectors for transmitting. The illness among many adult adult people here. So while the adults are practicing social distancing taking the kids away from socialization and allowing it to spread in ASEM dramatic fashion in the Child. A child education population is also another reason that the schools are closed. Right now right. I can't think of a mall. Perfect way of spreading this virus than schools. Where a Kid?.