Prime Minister, Selfie, Gandhari discussed on The Ezra Klein Show

Automatic TRANSCRIPT

Is there to coerce us in a sense is that site to us if you behave in this way, you're going to get rewarded you're going to be valorize a hero. But if you behave in this way, you're going to be punished and is going to be bad with what seems interesting to me about that. And it's something you draw a lot in in the book is that which stories we tell and which stories will become used to telling filter the world for us. So I think there could be a tendency when you're reading a story to thank you reading some version of the truth and. Maybe it is some version of the truth. But you've a lot in the book about the way, our idea of ourself and the way our idea of our relationship to others is very culturally mediated, and the idea that stories are kind of filtering mechanism through which we get those cultural lessons is interesting to me. Can you can you talk a bit about the way stories differ from from culture to culture to to make that possible? Yeah. Absolutely say say, so you can see eye simplistically, you can see kind of human behavior happening on those two levels and the for the first level is bar logical. So so there were a things that we have been doing for so long is become baked into our brains in and that's that kind of fairy basic rules about how to how humans alone, the Darwinian all living things won't see survive and reproduce. And humans have a very specific way in which we solve that problem with as I said with this social creature that live in tribes that we do that group usually so that gives us these particular brains that that are designed to. Soave that prime minister in way, and he's a basic things like the universe. Mirella accesses selfish verses selfless for the reasons. I've just outlined what we tend to favor our group before ourselves. So these these are the very basic way. So so these are coming out is it you'll find stories sitting all across the world, but on top of that kind of basic biological level. Humans a bone with is going to semi finish brain. And we have these huge days than to childhoods. And the reason we have these extended shelves, which because the power of of our own local culture is incredibly important to who we are. So over this basic, universal human brain that we're born with we have a couple of decades in which our local culture, kind of associates own kind of power, and these the kind of local stories that we can build on top of those kind of, you know, very basic going to bar logical universal stories. So as I said, you know, all around the world, the moral accesses selfish versus selfless and the trouble for Gandhari saying be selfless. Don't be selfish. But on top of that, go, coach and coaches. Okay. It's all answering those questions in the most specific way saying, okay? If I wanted to if I want to kind of. Be kind of averge. Remember, this particular group power should I act and what I do in selfie is. I specifically look the differences between how people in the west solve that problem and how people in east solve that problem. I look at that. Because that's what psychologists have been doing so ten twenty years with very interesting results. And of course, in a nutshell in the west wing individualists. So we kind of prioritize ourselves individuals and in the east that farm will kind of community kinda group machine kind of cognition so on so for that kind of basic biological levels. We have coach going to mediate spy biology at kind of shifts its emphasis, this is something that came up in a podcast did a couple months back. Michael pollen when we're talking about both psychedelics in the structure of the human brain. But this idea that when we tell these stories when we absorb these stories that it's not just a narrative we're getting, but it actually affects how we see the world that literally affects. Structure of our brain that this is something I think is a little bit hard to grop, including for me us done a lot of reading into it. Now that the cultural context in which you grow up, it changes what we notice it changes sort of what parts of our brain what parts of our perception are really strong. And so literally does change our experience of the world isn't just a narrative..

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