China, Paris, Executive discussed on The Joe Rogan Experience
Fossil fuel use. That that's a simplification, but then you have to go for that more aggressive target, two zero net zero emissions by twenty fifty, so we're talking essentially about this huge industry, having to either completely transform itself or go away within thirty years, and then by the way after that, you have to go into negative emissions, which means building a new industry that sucks carbon out of the air and buries it. We haven't even really begun to talk about that, but but that's assumed what we're going to have to do. Because we have now delayed for thirty years, thanks in large part to fossil. Fossil fuel denial, so so you got Exxon saying yeah, we. We understand Paris and all that, but if you if you look at their own projections about what they think's going to happen, they put out these formal projections of how much oil will be consumed in the whole world and what our emissions are going to be. They still project emissions going up, and then sort of leveling off until twenty forty, by which time in fact they need to be very very low, so it's kind of like the tobacco companies. The Big Tobacco companies are no longer denying the basic facts, they admit. This product is addictive and a quote in the book from one executive saying. Yeah kills about half of our of our lifetime. Smoking customers are most loyal customers. So. But despite having four decades, said if we really believed this was harmful, we wouldn't sell it They're obviously continuing to sell it quite enthusiastically, and that's kind of where we are I. Think with the major oil companies, coal is still in denial at are still denying it, but but. The major oil company interesting yeah. The problem but they are still planning on selling more and more of their product, and and so that is sort of the kernel of denial that industry has yet to grapple with, but it right now at least temporarily inseparable in terms of our ability to move around disturbing goods meet kind of have to have oil to have to have gasoline petroleum products. You, you do a moment. Right them all, but you know. Fortunately we really do have the technologies to to. In fact, slash our emissions will don't have as political will, but you could I mean I. It is not impossible to say in ten years. We are going to have closed Certainly, all of our gas plants in our natural gas plants will either have carbon capture, or they will be closed. It's not impossible to say all of our cars. Certainly, all new cars are going to be electric and we're going. We can build an infrastructure that can be done. It is a massive undertaking. It is I mean when people talk about the green new deal. sometimes that rhetoric includes World War Two and I. think that's actually appropriate because we are talking about a massive change. That is going to transform our. Economy and at the same time hopefully address some of the qualities that we already have in place I mean that that's going. Make a trickier but most of the deals. Are for. Example very aware that we're GONNA be hurting coal miners. We're going to be hurting oil rig workers and trying to put in place some ways that that we can keep them from suffering. Help them find other jobs help their communities diversify and whatnot. So you know if if we are going to avoid what will be a multi century catastrophe in terms of climate change? This is what we have to do and and I. It's hard for me to even say the word catastrophe because I know how people here that I know it sounds like a crazy exaggeration. Do you really think those of this point? Well? I think it does to enough people that it was. Is it because of propaganda because it seems. Yeah, right. Hit Ten people that when they give you the worst projections the things that we should avoid. When I was talking about these oil executives still selling oil. Is that right now? They have to I. Mean I understand that there? There needs to be a shift and I'm absolutely in favor of that. But if there was no oil right now, they must cut it off crisis. Yeah, we have a real issue, right? We have a real issue I mean. Humanity has an issue and we shouldn't be thinking of it. As the oil companies issue or or the climate issue. It's you know it's a humanity issue. How are we going to deal with this and unfortunately? You know this isn't something capitalism. Is set up to deal with. That's about growth. It isn't about. How do we take this massive industrial enterprise wind it down and replace. This technology was something else. Is the solution finding some method of profiting off pulling carbon from the atmosphere? It seems like if if it becomes very effective to do that, that could be an enormous way that these companies can kind of shift. Yeah, well I'm not sure that these companies will shift. Someone could because they do have drilling, technology and whatnot, so they could end up being. Leaders in actually bearing the carbon that they once extracted and put into the atmosphere. That would be weird. One one of the things that's so weird about this whole debate for decades now is that. You, you've got folks talking about how incredibly terrific markets are and how they can handle all these problems and you know starting in the ninety s or so folks were saying great. Okay, let's put a price on carbon. Because otherwise the markets are totally blind. If you can pollute completely for free, the market has no incentive to reduce polluting or to draw carbon out of the air and bury. Bury it, but the people who seem to have the most faith in the power of markets are the ones most opposed to putting a price on carbon, so the advances we might have made, and and some states actually do have a price on carbon, but the advances we might have made more nationalist globally have been blocked by people who who love markets an here's. Another is part of this. Country! Who's like our main competitor and not incidentally huge huge polluters China extensively Communist. They believe more in market power than. You know the the right wing of the Republican Party they have put a price on carbon. And they are using market forces to try to reduce pollution. Really, so China's more progressive in in terms of trying to reduce pollution than Americans. Well China's polluting a huge amount. Was GonNA. Say on this particular issue of how can the markets help us reduce pollution? They're using market forces to try to produce their pollution, and we're still not another really divisive aspect of this is that it's become some sort of a left versus right ideological issue like there's a lot of people on the right that I've had conversations with people that really don't have any idea what they're talking about where they instantly deny that climate change is a real issue, and when you press them on it, and just it's one of the benefits of having. Sort of long form conversations is that if you're doing this on CNN and it's one of those talking head things where you only have seven minutes industry people shouting over each other very hard to get to the heart of. Why do you believe this? Yeah, but when you're talking over long? PODCASTS hours long. You get to these people and. They'll adamantly deny that. It's an issue. But they don't know why. Do you know what I'm saying. It's like a thing. If you're a right wing, pundit or right wing, person you saying right-wing things. You're going to say climate change on our issue. What are you right now? IS THE ECONOMY AIN'T? GonNa, do right now is support jobs and people. There's a lot of people need put food on the table. There's a lot of people that need, and then they get this sort of a ranting, raving pro economic standpoint and it becomes. A denial of environmental problems that's becomes left versus right. It's very strange. I don't understand why anyone like how can that not be a universal issue? How could anyone not want? The world would be better for our grandchildren. How how could anybody not want less pollution? But it it becomes this thing where we have all these different categories that are left and right, and once you're on one side. You automatically seem to oppose those things that are in the other parties idea well in fact. There's one Survey I site in here. That showed that. Climate Change was the most polarized issue in the American political landscape, even more than abortion, really More than worship now that was a snapshot in time, and I think maybe that's changing..