Oren Katz Baba Brinkman, Scientist, Alex discussed on Science Friction
Would develop seriously folks called meaty was working with retinue runs and now he's traveling dwelled with a piece called self so it's collaboration with team is just not Nathan Thompson. Another other researchers where he used his on sales used a PS technology which bisky took his skin cells made them into stem cells into nerve cells. GRUDEN F- sales over in a rare Felix roads that are connected to use a phonetic synthesizer display. Live with musician. Jim We traditions. So all of this is to say that here. We've been exploring during those questions of what does it mean to have things at least perceived to be responsive this Andy. I kind of stepped back from that because I treat me out. Oh yeah ask me. Alex sounds like in the logic of that project is. It's okay to torture and organize. His lungs is made from your own stem cells. Yeah that was one of the ideas that the it's like he doesn't I want to subject anyone else so we would subject on neurons into it and it's very likely that the response we got from the neurons does nothing coherent. Teach them screaming. It's like get me the fuck out of you. That's right. How would you know you need to learn their language so I love the fact that something free to add though? This is a good start. This is rich conversation conversation. But how would you describe as a poet. Your relationship to science is it is science your muse or yeah. That's a fascinating thing. I grew up with two people on my wall to start with one hand Solo. The other was called Sagan and and I a lot of teenage boys came into my room when I was a teenager and just walked straight out of that room so aw I was absolutely passionately in love with science and in high school was sort of discouraged from going down that route so I went down to not route but it just kept. I kept calling me and calling me and I find that in some ways they are completely different they have different framework sometimes and then others. They're so oh similar with without science you with both test you compute you. Guess you observe you connect. There's so many different ways that they come together and I would just love reading about science like I can't help it and I tended towards looking it physics and quantum physics and astrophysics so I looked outside of myself a bit of Hans Solo the Solo being that mercenary in in the Star Wars Saga. who was a bit of a head and you had a hand blocks to buy side? He his foreign pants and a wookey. Paul Sagan had big lapels and a gorgeous voice but he broke down science and science communication in a way that I can understand. He's COSMO's series. Just thought this is going to be my life somehow and I couldn't believe that it came to that and I always feel lacking on how you feel Baba but without a science degree. There's always that sense of insecurity when I'm looking at science but I can't help it. It's something I feel completely passionate. But after all those years of rating in you know more than any science degree would have given. You can promise you that and I'll just WANNA come back. Though to. That teacher was at a teacher. It was a scientist show but they thinking you of all people you truly in awe and passionate about physics. Well it's really funny. Those Myers Briggs test which. I'm sure there's a lot of scientists scientists who'd say that perhaps these aren't exactly scientific. They all came up with should be a scientist or an artist but to be fair to the science teacher. We were breaking breaking chickens in half and I've been a vegetarian since twelve so it was about biology and I was really backing off that and to be truthful I didn't know I didn't have the confidence to to go into science because I think if I was doing Dada Day after day after day I would have filed. I need chaos and creativity but I didn't realize you can get that in science But I just didn't know if I have nine. That physics was an option. I would have done that then. It's never too late no as you've proved RN. You're working at such a fascinating frontier. They as much going on now. In the life sciences I just did a series of programs on Synthetic Balaji which is a saint essentially using engineering principles to engineers synthetic life in all sorts of ways shapes and forms. which is you know has fabulous possibilities bility's but also fabulous concerns about what might happen if we create an organism that is then released into a population? What what happens? So you're working at such a frightening exciting excellent frontier-free aren't you think so. People are trying to make from scratch quick so they're basically trying to put together different types of chemicals to create something that would express Lifelike behavior in one of the most advanced. Groups are doing the Abasing acing Zurich in Switzerland and they realize in some stage that they would never be able to know if the successful or not so the employed philosopher to tell them if the work is going to work or not because the question of flies to realize was a philosophical question rather than a scientific one and so I think this is an ex extreme thing especially when we move now towards this idea of applying engineering logic. Living Systems engineers are not really philosophers to put it lightly. Well it's this idea. The two of engineering evolution to pick up Baba was describing to us. So do you see your role as being that philosopher North think artist of a very different role artists pointing the finger at places where we think philosophers to go so so we are. We are doctor carries the goal in the coal mine. Because you you know philosophers would rarely enter delib and what we do. And do the modal redevelopment seem to kind of get as many people involved not saying that this is the only model you can do is where we get artists to come and work in the lab experience into most physiological experiential. Way What it means to do those kinds of things. What are they learning? What are they doing? Give us a visceral sense because it this visceral. It's very visceral so but it ranges so we see yourself as a research lab. The deals with questions of life from the To ecological we seem to come focus. Focus mainly around the kind of the cell and tissue level and the idea of manipulating living cells and tissues. We also often go to the origin. So we are harvesting the cells ourselves. Yes we usually would win an animal sacrifice. For scientific experiment we would take the company buy products With and we are very much so when when I show oh my work I I often show us for some blood and guts and show death and show everything which relates to the idea of life and consequences of what does it mean to engage with life in such a mentor. We identify areas that need more cultural scrutiny driven by you know represent poets and philosophers and social scientists and geographers and whatever other people who have an interesting life but never have direct experience of engaging life that happens in labs all over the world by scientists and engineers should be doing more. Ah themselves to or are they too close to their work to understand the social ethical consequences some scientists are really good at doing that in the life sciences most of the scientists coming and because they are curious and end up acting as kind of utilitarian lead monkeys in the life sciences so much a scientist but the hyperbolic all around a life science is generating also many unrealistic expectations about the utility indication of. What's coming up in and outs of really genuine concern of sci-fi uh-huh really concerned about those unfulfilled promises? And how can probably trust is being eroded with things like the genome project and crazy promises that were delivered lever with it. There's a lot of a lot of bad sites going on then. Bed is a strange word. What is good sides? I mean there's a scientific methodology but how do you. How do he's describe what bedside sees on the other hand there's a little bad science sane and again that's a value judgement? I mean I get something out of everything that I participate in zoos but there is there is sort of bed out sometimes when you get on a high horse about something. Isn't this just anything that Sti- I identity for telling you all looking at things quite simply and just surface level and what are in saying about moral and ethical works by science and art sometimes people just push things for the sake of pushing it in. That's not interesting. So and also it's subjective objective objective. What what I think's bad you might not think spared but I think there's bad all over the world Especially akin to science are. It's just sitting the science spice. It's very easy to get to go. Oh Wow wow look at that an artist doubling with scientific knowledge. ooh But then war attempt to diagnosis. What you're talking about a good Canadian Margaret Atwood was asked so is there is writing for expressing your emotions and she said no writing is not for expressing your motions ratings for evoking emotions in other people and I think great art really understands that and takes it to his as far as it can as a technique take and a lot of people that decide? I'm going to communicate. Science with art are more interested in the science than the art. They're just like these are important. Ideas has let's try to get them to people by putting window-dressing on it fails as art so I think the intention to have it work as a as a performance or and as a work of art having the design process be taken as seriously as any other genre of art and it's also about science. That's when it works really well but if it's if you think your message is what makes it worthwhile. That's kind of narcissistic master. Batory even as well but Ralph until my students if you have an interesting story to tell it doesn't really matter what technology used to tell it and that's right that's riding any kind of riding if you just want to hear yourself then Pepsi something else fantastic. Can I please get you thank Oren Katz Baba Brinkman and Alicia sometimes sometimes joining me from the Quantum Woods Festival biological artist Professor Oren Katz Rapper. Baba Brinkman and poet Alicia sometimes thanks to co produce. Jane Lee Sound Engineers David Lemay and Christie Miltiades and quantum festival directors John McCready and Sharon Flynn Dell from riding South Wales and writing W. A. on the Tesha Mitchell on twitter at Natasha Mitchell. Catchy next time by you've been listening to an A._B._C.. podcast discover more great A._B._C.. podcasts live radio and exclusives on the A._B._C. Listen APP..