The ways in which people who work in all sorts of different ways in the arts in writing in all sorts of Spheres bring their own imagination to these challenges. But i really think that the odd says the enormously powerful in australia is an organization Climate who have not only organized many exhibitions and performances and so which highlights the climate crisis action but also as with the tight focused on. How can we get the big performing outs. Companies the galleries to divest from fossil fuel Sponsorship so yeah. I think that the liberate tights a great example of bringing imagination and creativity to bear. And you talk about social tipping points highlighting a movement in germany. The energy transition experiment. I suppose you could call it. Tell us about that because its roots go back to the nineteen seventy s. That's right. I mean i give a range of examples in the book of different sorts of of action and some of those of course during activists kind of examples like school strike for climate or three fifty dog. But i think it's also important to look to examples which really do engage with the political process with policy change. And i'm sure german listeners. Wide think that The energy transition in germany has been anything like perfect or anything like fast enough but i must say compared to australia. It always looks faster. At least and i think therefore it's an interesting case. Study if you like of the the way in which over a period of as you say. Twenty thirty is the development of a consciousness in germany about initially of course triggered by conversations about nuclear power and other sorts of energy but the awareness that A really major transition needed to occur in energy. I think to peps quick points to about that. I think the german example highlights the recognition that the transition to a non fossil fuel based energy system renewable energy. It needs to be you know. Well and thoughtfully adams equitably managed but they can be huge economic benefits as well as as well as costs in that. I also think And again it's by no means perfect but it's an interesting comparison side with australia. The emphasis on working with call dependent communities and workers has certainly been more effective and more thoughtful. I think than say in australia. And do you think that the transformational change to take place. We should be looking towards technological innovation. We'll tech be our savior. It'll be important. But i think it's not. I think it's naive to think that technology alone will be out savior as you say in fact. I think there's a real often attention. I think i sent me say said here in australia. Between if you like the techno optimist point of view that says yes something will will turn up. We'll learn how to we'll magically learn how to pull ceo two out of the air maybe we'll magically learn how to buy mirrors in space and reflect the sun back. I mean i on the one hand. I deeply respect My friends and colleagues who working in technology in engineering the advances in areas like renewable energy are incredibly important and and very exciting. But i think we need to firstly be cautious about simply say i we can continue business as usual and Yes something magical will turn up. I think there's real real risks in that. And i think it misses the point that we also need to think differently about the way we live. That's going to be important. In terms of reducing the demand we place on energy reducing consumption but..