Um So, Yeah. I mean, I don't know if I draw a direct line between them, but certainly they're related. Yes. Let's bring in, uh Camelia Camelia from Sebastopol. Hey, thank you so much for this topic. And for this hour, I'm really appreciating the conversation. And I wanted to address that question that you had asked about what freedom have I willingly given up and makes me think of the Benjamin Franklin Quote of Those who are willing to sacrifice liberty for the sake of security design, you know, deserve neither. That's paraphrasing, of course. But by participating in society, I've essentially willingly given up my right to privacy. Um, you know, CCTV cameras being traced and tracked online essentially our movements. Are trapped from the second We wake up to the second we go to sleep, and so, um, it's one of those freedoms that I if I was given a choice. I wouldn't give up. But by participating by choosing to participate in an online world and driving on the road, I'm agreeing to give up those freedoms and it's confusing. To me. It's one of those places where I internally want to push back and say, Hey, wait. I'm not sure I want to enter into this social contract. However Yeah, that guy murdered someone to thank goodness we have CCTV so that you can track him down. And help, you know, help them on the road to recovery or to, you know, enter the system, so it's just balancing him or her. Whatever balance of The ways in which I'm protected. And the ways in which I'm concerned by what sometimes feels like an overreach. Uh, Sebastian, you go ahead. Yeah. No, I mean, that's the eternal human dilemma right? Like how do you balance those two things? I mean, what I would say is that when you walk down the street, hundreds of people are seeing you pass and they're not intruding on your freedom by observing you. And if they if they observe you committing a crime, and they call the police. They're not intruding on your freedom because you're part of a society and you agree to abide by its norms and its laws and Likewise, the CCTV I mean, it can observe you all all it wants, And there are some pretty strict laws about how that information can be used or can't use against an individual. And, um You know, so you know, and you feel those laws are not adequate to protect your You know, sometimes people confuse the word freedom with the word rights. If if you feel those laws are not adequate to protect your rights and your privacy well, then that must be addressed. At the state Legislature in the courts in the ballot box, whatever it may be, But there is recourse right? And there's also the recourse of moving to another country that doesn't have CCTV or to live in a rural community or what have you or by yourself in the role of this like that's all But when you freely choose to participate in a group and their group makes clear what its norms are. You know, either change those norms by fair means or agree to them like that's just the human condition. This isn't a new This isn't a new situation. But do you think that the technology ization of many of these previously human tests has sort of chill tilted the balance of Of what you have to give up to participate in society, Um towards government authorities or others, Private enterprises. Well, I mean, you know, violent crime is a huge threat to our individual rights into our freedom. And one of the ways that violent crime can be combated is through extensive surveillance through CCTV. So You know, as long as those cameras are not being used in illegal ways that constrain your freedom, Uh I mean, they're used to monitor people were breaking the law, right? As long as that's all they're used for. You know, I would say that your freedom hasn't been touched. And, uh, us for social media and all that stuff like I mean, I don't I mean, I have a flip phone. I don't have a smartphone, You know? Honestly, I just don't want Corporate interests and or the government, knowing every darn thing that I buy and everything I've ever Googled and all that stuff like, you know, In some sense, the most profound freedom is to not be addicted to anything not be dependent on anything, right? And so an addiction is the the plague of modern society. I mean, People are addicted to alcohol and drugs and fast food and television and 24 hours, seven entertainment and social media and their iPhones and on and on and on, and that is a profound Assault on your freedom. And you know the one of the things you could do to make you to really to really free yourself in a lot of ways is to take your smartphone and go to the nearest pond. And cock your arm and see how many skips you can get out of it before it sinks to the bottom. I think Michael actually from San Rafael Watch to talk about this as well. Good morning. I'm so enthralled by this by this topic in the last couple minutes, especially because I'm calling on my flip phone. And, um, I really enjoyed your work over the years and younger. What a pleasure to talk with you. And thanks for bringing us up here in the last few minutes, because I see I'm a middle school teacher here in the city and and that's at public schools and I see kids just so it really is heartbreaking and troubling to see how On social media has really clamped down. I see it as their freedom. I see it as their interests. I see it as the possibility of other interests, you know, and you get things like tiktok that are insidiously. Really, Uh, I don't know They are just the algorithm to people's behavior, You know, So I'm really curious about how that is affecting our human freedoms and riding the bus. No one talks anymore because everyone's just glued to that. That pocket computer that pocket robot so called phone No one seems to talk into, you know, so thanks for bringing it up. I'm not going to be a Getting smart but wonderful topic today, Gentlemen. Thanks a lot. Thanks, Michael. So So, um, I think an important thing to keep in mind, Um Is that, um, you If you're addicted to something, you're not free. And so you have to be very careful about the practices that you That you undertake every day and that you allow into your life. Um There. I spoke to a guy who done decades in prison. And and Heat for a terrible crime, and he really reformed himself. He educated himself extraordinary man, amazing minds and he was let out early on good behavior, and I interviewed him right after he came out of prison. And I asked him, I said, I feel a little silly asking this, but I'd like to know. Do you think it's possible to be more free in prison than outside of prison? And you looked at me like I was crazy, right? He was like, Of course it is. Are you kidding? He said look at look at people out there, he said. They're all like They're all addicted to things. You know, You can't be addicted to drugs in prison. You can't You can't be addicted to your iPhone into social media and the television all that other stuff, he said. That really is what deprived people of their freedom their autonomy. He said. In prison. You got nothing but time and eventually you're going to have an honest conversation with yourself about who you really are and what you're doing there and when you when you finally get around to doing that, You're a free person, and that's a kind of freedom that many people on the outside as he called people outside of prison that many people on the outside, it's a form of freedom that many people do not attain. Well, you're getting to a kind of freedom. That sort of gets glanced on in the book. But it's sort of that the inner sense of freedom that say, you know, mystics might have or or or other people who with a with a really deep spiritual practice. You see that as something I know that you've kind of an avowed atheist produced. See that kind of inner work as as part of freedom outside of, you know, being able to maintain You know your your personal safety and the safety of your society. Mhm. Yeah, You know, I didn't It could I could have. I could have written a four section book. Um, run, fight, Think and feel right, and, uh, And I feel I would that would encompass the kind of spiritual quest.