Exxon Mobil, Roosevelt, Facebook discussed on The Joe Rogan Experience


You don't have to worry about that, but I like your new car as a beautiful house that you got. You bought the profits of poisoning lakes. Well, that's exactly it in fact I suggest in the book that if you were a super villain, and you wanted to create a society that would ultimately destroy itself by imposing huge risks on each other and on the planet. You would probably create something that looks a lot like our current corporate dominated global economy in the sense of these organizations that amplify yourself interest that diminish your sense of responsibility that amplify all of your biases. You'd have justifying ideology to make it all seem fine. You would have the responsibility so diffuse that nobody would really feel too badly about it. and you give these. These folks in credible political power including constitutional rights so that they could dominate your democracy so that they could. Basically corporations can do whatever is legal used to not be that way. They can do whatever they were authorized to do by their charter, and then they'd have to stop smoking. Get the permission to build a canal, and then they'd and they'd be done and go away. Eventually, we made them immortal and they could do whatever they wanted as long as it's legal. And then we gave them huge amount of power to determine what actually is legal by influence, our democracy going to ask you about the what is the birth of a limited liability corporation? Like when when did all that occur? Well? They go way back. I mean during the slave trade they were. They didn't necessarily call them that, but they were essentially owned by shareholders, and so they would you know pool their capital, so it's very similar we've had corporate corporations are centuries old. If you go back to I think some early universities and things. But, we we didn't have kind of general purpose. Corporate laws in this country I think until. Mostly in the eighteen hundreds so when we first formed this country. You would have to go to the legislature. There were only a couple of of significant corporations around even at the time of the founders, and so that's why you really don't see corporations in the constitution. They're not mentioned because they weren't very powerful when they did get more powerful. You have some quotes from some of the founders. Saying Oh, this is this is a little scary and then of course they became very powerful in in the eighteen hundreds. You end up with gilded age, and so then you have folks like Teddy. Roosevelt are saying. Wait a minute. The you know this is a creation of law, and so we get to determine how much power has and he. Responded with the kind of trust busting movements, breaking down some of the really big old trusts. And and that was probably the first big pushback where where the government said, wait a minute, you corporations are too powerful. We're going to try to produce that power and then I. Think the next big phase of that would have been in the depression where you have the the new deal coming in and saying okay banks, you just wreck the economy. We're going to regulate you going to give workers more rights. We're going to create social security. We're GONNA. Do all kinds of things that that diminish corporate power over the democracy? And then it happened again in the sixties and seventies, and what I think is is that it might be about to happen again. Given that there is now so much concern about corporate power. citizens United Influence over democracy. people worried about concentration of wealth at the very very tippy top, and obviously people were that we are unable to deal with climate, change and Another factor would be the power of social media corporations to influence elections to influence public discourse They seem to have kinda snuck in in a way. That was really unexpected and people didn't see it coming right well. I mean that's actually the pattern. People never see it coming. All of these chapters pretty much begin with some kind of a discovery. And some industry races in there, and takes advantage of it I mean even slavery. The discovery would have been the new world and this enormous commercial opportunity, if you can just get the workers in there to to grow the tobacco in the cotton and sugar But but sued have the discovery you have an industry springing up to take advantage of it, and and making a lot of money and changing social norms along the way. Then problems are emerging obviously with slavery. They were inherent, but problems will emerge other people outside the industry discover those problems and pay attention to them. Draw attention, and then eventually you get to a law now. That's kind of an artificial ending, because you have to make sure that law gets enforced, but but in almost all of these chapters you get to some form of government action where they say. No, you can't do that anymore. We we stopped this industry. We ban this product, or at least we're gonNA, try to tweak your behavior but that process first of all it takes a long long time and enormous damage can be done in the meantime. but that process doesn't work. You don't even get your your somewhat happy ending. If the industry has become so powerful that that it determines. Whether it gets regulated or not in it blocks those regulations well. That's what I was getting, too. Because that kind of seems we're we're at now with. Corporations like facebook. Like they have an insane amount of power, and that power is actually being used to dictate who becomes president and that's what's really strange. It's like there's never been a corporation that. mean. Other corporations did their best to influence the market and influence regulations in a way that they can continue to profit, but this is a different thing where they're literally influence in influencing directly who becomes the person who runs the country, which is a new thing, well it. It's a new thing when they do it through information It's not a new thing where the do it through money. Right That's that's pretty well established, but but yeah. I mean you know Ah Somebody Probably not me because I don't know this. This industry well enough, but but the pattern is so clear that that it's clear where we're we're. We're heading right I mean the problems will get worse and worse. Other people talk about them. The problems are very new I think because we are talking about problems related to information and that you know and social media. How to social media affect social animals I mean this gets really complicated. It's going to be hard to figure this out But in addition to. Having their own denial about what harm they inadvertently unleash. They are vectors for the denial of other industries night, and so that's one of the reasons climate denial for example is still going to be out there and deeply rooted for longtime, even though the oil industry which played a huge role in in building it up has basically set up. We accept the climate science. We know this is happening. In fact, the Exxon Mobil even says it accepts the Paris Agreement, which says that we have to limit warming to well below two degrees. Centigrade and that sounds small. That's actually a pretty dangerous amount of warming, but that's the target.

Coming up next