Henry, Catherine, England discussed on The Bible Binge

The Bible Binge
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Is also committed to finding great therapy matches so they can make it free and easy to change their best if it is more affordable than traditional therapy and financial aid is available visit better health dot com slash bible. Binge that's better h lp and join the over one million people who take charge of their mental health with the help of experience professional as a special offer for bob windless. Get ten percents off your first month at better health dot com slash by the bench. Now back to the show okay. So now let's move into our second section. The red thread board. We're going to get intense and weird and as a warning we will be talking about the existence of sex the realities of political marriage in the sixteenth century as well as infant loss. So if that is not something that serves you at this time you might want to skip ahead in the section. We're going to look at three. Red threads. How henry the eighth simultaneously fixed and ruined everything bringing a monarchy hitched to the church of the twenty first century and the importance of institution in society. And why they can be problematic. So let's get this thread number one. How henry the eighth simultaneously fixed and ruined everything hitter the eighth until he was ten years old he was generally accepted that henry would go into the clergy. As most second born royal or royle adjacent sons were often want to do. But when henry's brother prince. Arthur died young. Henry immediately moved up in the line of succession and the course of his entire life as well as pretty much. The entire world change drastically now. Henry was kind of confusing dude. He seemed to be extremely pious. He was a devoted catholic. He was a weirdly fine husband when he wasn't actively murdering his wives and by fine i mean. He gave his wife's jewelry and large tracts of land named movie and like pet names for them. Which if you're wondering is apparently a high bar for biblical marriage in the fifteen hundreds so just briefly. I want to take a short jaunt into the world of renaissance monarchy's. We'll look at someone today. Like prince william who had for the most part pretty much carte blanche and his choice of catherine middleton us speech acquaint. They had a love match. They seem to get along really well. William is for the most part the first real air in british history whose choice of spouse was not a matter of national security. Even his father's generation had to marry within certain bounds of societal rules. He didn't have to marry someone. Based on their alliances with the vatican or helpful ally with an expensive army wasn't basin diplomacy or the need for an air marriage between royalty really up until prince william got married was a political strategy. If this king married the daughter of this duke or prince it would sure piece sometimes and aid also sometimes a large dowry with which to finance wars and houses and land grabs sometimes and an air again subtypes. While there were love matches between royals it was often just a function of affairs for domestic. So this one. I just described as the climate around which henry married his brother's widow catherine of aragon a match. He was generally in favor of. She was a good bit older than he was in. It's speculated that he had a little crush on her as a boy at the beginning because of diplomatic events in fact really that means king henry father had already spent most of her dowry catherine was used as a pawn between her home country and her adopted country and when ponds no longer service. They're easy to throw out. So back to henry pious devoted to religion but also needs a son like big time. He still young enough to remember the civil war. His father lead against the your family and no one in england has any desire to deal with the crisis of the succession and the national fallout. That includes he's also you know in mrs at least two that we know of for certain not including amblin or jane seymour. Vinci became his wives and up to thirteen. He also really loved to murder people who disagreed with him. And this is an important note so he can do all of this because he claimed the divine right of king. Meaning god predestined henry. To be king because he was king no matter what he did he did it. Within god's will and it was morally and spiritually correct because he was king. Only god was sovereign above henry but henry was also a good catholic so he often deferred the pope so henry needs a son and he becomes convinced that god is punishing him and catherine with stillborn babies and miscarriages a soul living daughter because they are living in said the sin. Henry is convinced he's committing incest due to the fact that he's married to his brother's wife says no but katherine says her marriage to arthur was never consummated. Now fun fact. Even though arthur boldly proclaimed the morning after their wedding that he had quote spent the night in spain which was probably just a teenage boy trying to look sexually accomplished. Before catherine and henry were married the pope actually created something called a papal bull which is an important piece of paper that assured everyone got is very cool with this marriage. Please proceed this. Papal bull was enormously helpful for henry and catherine to get married and it proved a huge roadblock for their future annulment now this annoyed henry greatly but it comforted catherine as she felt like. It was god's will for her to be queen and henry but henry was not the kind of guy to sit back and just take pope clements refusal to grant an annulment lying down there. A dense and confusing set of acts of parliament. He broke england away from the pope's authority and gave it to himself. As the supreme head on earth of the church of england the king it now really answered to no one. But god helpfully for henry before his official break with rome. He had convinced the pope to install his theo. Bro a man named thomas. Grand murked beat the archbishop of canterbury and now was the second highest spiritual leader in england. He declared catherine and henry's marriage. Invalid their daughter. Illegitimate and signed that forced papers clearing the way for henry to mary and blend catherine's title was replaced by one that identified her as princess. Dowager and she was moved to the country separated from her daughter mary until her death which is a huge jerk. Move by henry okay. But it wasn't just marital convenience that spurred on the reformation in england while the catholic church at this time did many good and holy things on a local level like caring for the poor much of the leadership could be bribed or bent to rulers political. Well depending on the amount of gold or protection they would be willing to offer doesn't sound familiar. Indulgences were rampant. The pope exercise deprima authority often less religious purposes more for selfish purposes. And many did not dig on this including a guy in germany named martin luther now years before his appointment as archbishop of canterbury kramer was an ambassador in the roman court of the holy roman emperor. Charles the fifth catherine's nephew. During one of their progresses. They traveled through germany. Where crammer learned more about lutheranism which at that time was so heretical. It could get you burned at the stake but here is probably where the international climate and the needs of dynasty collided lutheranism was heretical at the time but it also provided the environment for the topic convenient reform henry needed to enact. His marriage plan rather his remarriage plan. Of course all of this proved for not when ambulant also suffered miscarriages stillbirths and only a living daughter. This pattern seemed familiar to henry because one of his known mr says was for a time mary berlin an older sister and fun fact. There's an unsubstantiated rumor that he also slept with mother berlin again. god was punishing henry for incest. Which at this point my dude pay attention and he needed to get rid of an for an air sake but it wasn't as easy this time so and suffered the miscarriage of a baby boy and while she recovered henry set into motion events that would end with and being accused of witchcraft sleeping with her brother again. Incest me think the king dot protest too much and was beheaded for high treason even with trumped up evidence and false accusations because although the judicial system today certainly has its problems. The laws of the land during this time are such that they were not an apparatus for justice but a puppet of the state fun fact an was almost certainly innocent and when her daughter is sent to the throne elizabeth the first she was rebranded as a faith leader and a martyr for the protestant faith. She almost certainly wasn't that either but history is written by the winners as they say but ambulance role in king. Henry's life open up a way forward for the reforms that sweeping europe at the time and kick started what we now see as a church of england now. Historians are divided on whether henry's desire to marry an or his need to annul his marriage to catherine should be held up as the event registered trademark. That led to the english reformation. Historian ill woodward says that his determination to annul his marriage with catherine was the occasion rather than the cause is but as it happened. His daughter with an elizabeth ended up bringing england into a more modern tolerant religious time than we'd ever seen with her father or her half brother or half sister even if it was pretty much illegal to be a catholic in england until the mid eighteen hundreds henry rid england of poisonous aspects of catholicism at that time indulgences a weird obsession and misuse of the idea of purgatory. Toxic papal supremacy. He paved the way for services to be conducted in the common tongue for non-clergy to be able to read the bible in their own language and for clergy to be able to marry lots of good or find things depending on your perspective but he also repeated many of the things. He despised in catholic leadership. Hypocrisy greed pride. So did henry. The eighth save true religion or did he just market his actions as such when really he just established another version of religious posturing where he got to be in charge. Same song different bursts of course with such a distance we can clearly see the consequences of his actions but while the reformation definitely still would have happened had henry never ascended to the throne or had he been able to easily secure an annulment for his marriage to catherine had catherine and him able to have boys so many factors that play both institutions would look very different than they do today and that brings us to our next thread. What does this actually look like today. In a post christian society. Why are we still committed to this. Largely powerless figurehead rooted in religion. So let's talk about the last vestige of the church and state inquiries with the second and what the heck is charles gonna do. I think this particular threat is best. Summed up by an exchange made in two thousand six. Is the queen starring. Helen mirren so the queen and the prime minister played by michael. Sheen have just had a very tense. Meeting the queen leaves and her personal secretary. Says tony blair look. i understand. How difficult behavior must seem to you. How unhelpful but try to see it from her perspective. She's been brought up to believe. It's god's will she is who she is and tony blair. The prime minister set to modernize the country. Fires back. I think we should leave god out of it and this i think shows a lot of the tension between a secular post-christian society at a religious monarch that leads it queen elizabeth. The second has a deeply personal faith you know. She set the tone for the marriage of that. Faith and her vocation during her first christmas broadcast in nineteen fifty two before her But i want to ask you all whatever your religion may be to pray from me on that day to pray that god may give me wisdom and strength to carry out the solemn promises i should be making and that i may faithfully serve him and you all the days of my knife these christmas messages. Make up a large part of the public database of her thoughts on faith and god as the supreme governor of the church of england and her knowledge and understanding of scripture comes through take for instance this breakdown of john one ten from nine hundred ninety three. I'm always moved by those wizz. John's gospel which we have on christmas day he was in the world and the world was made by him and the world knew him. Not we have ended to listen to the news to know the truth of that but the gospel goes on but as many as received him then gave he powered becomes sons of god only inhumanity. Rhonda's just be grateful for those who have received and who go about clocking doing their work and his will without sort of reward or recognition. They knew that there is an eternal truths of much greater significance. The narayan triumphs and tragedies and is invited by the child in the manger fantasies that message of hope we can all try to the message of hope in our own lives. We also have a lot of apocryphal stories about her prayer life. The queen reportedly praise every day. Every evening she literally kneels to pray every day and keeps a detailed prayer journal. Now of course as proud as she is. These are apocryphal stories. But they do seem to be consistent now when queen elizabeth the second was crowned the country and the world looked very different. She was crowned in nineteen. Fifty-three it's two thousand twenty one. She is really all that remains of a very old tradition and last connection to the way religion was viewed in the past when she was crowned around six hundred. Seventy two thousand people were baptized year into the church of england. Now it's around one hundred thirty thousand when she was crowned about a third of the british population considered her in the ranks of the previous kings and queens at divinely authorized to rule and that is a much lower. Stop now. Fun fact queen elizabeth. The second believes this as well when she was crowned about a third of the british population considered her rule in ranks of previous kings and queens divinely authorized to rule that divine right of monarchs that we were talking about earlier in fact queen elizabeth. The second absolutely believes this as well as shown in her own coronation. The first and only so far to be televised shouldn't want any part of televised and only compromised when her advisors were limited to have the anointing section. Take place off camera because of its sacred nature. So what's going to continue what she dies and charles becomes. King should this relationship between the crown and the church sustain. I like to call charles chuck. Because he's like very much so. I tried to be disrespectful respectful manner. Chuck's coronation will be the first in this. Modern era and you can just collectively feel britain holding its breath about it. And it's not just because of modernity charles has always been enormously interested in other faiths so much so he's hinted that he would even tweak one of his titles a title that was first bestowed upon henry the eighth by the pope defender of the faith. This is a title that has been passed down through british monarchs. Since that time people close to the prince say he liked to change it to defender of faith. But in order for that to the prince would need an actual act of parliament to amend the nineteen fifty-three royal titles act and when we can see a change coming as big as the one that will occur. When charles's king it really props to look at the value of the institution as a whole right when we look back at history the church and the british royal family as institutions. They danced around sometimes. Close sometimes not like sometimes. They're dancing upon each other and sometimes they're like looking making eye contact across the room at the club and like dancing in sync but not actually dancing together but as we move into a new era. How do they inform one another. And what can they teach. Each other and that brings us to our third thread. Which is the church and the british royal family as institutions in so many ways these institutions of the british royal family and the church have marched side by side. For centuries there are a lot alike massive ancient institutions that have had difficulties in the past adapting to more modern world so let's look at their similarities. I first both traditionally imbued with great power. Kings clergy often held similar powers right exercising supreme authority in the lives of common people together and separately. They formed governments. They crafted laws. They kept the peace to varying degrees of success. You know in the great vin diagram The one of the things that lives in the middle of the royalty circle and the church circle is being able to kill people with legal authority right. So we don't really do that anymore. And that power has subsided through the centuries to the point that for the most part. It's largely ceremonial now. Let me just make clarification here. I am a believer. So i believe that god has given the church on earth supernatural powers power of prayer power of the holy spirit. I'm talking about here. I'm talking about secular governmental power right church and state. There's a separation that didn't use to be the case. And even within their own purview. The british royal family used to have the authority to make laws and set national. And now it's almost completely ceremonial church. Doesn't have the same reach that it once did and while. I would argue that this is a good thing like you know your pastor. Can't walk outside on a tuesday afternoon. See a lady dressed in a way. He doesn't like also with a mole on her face and be like she's a witch. We gotta we gotta do something about this. Which i just saw and set off a chain of events that ends with the townspeople drowning. Her because you know she's wearing a short skirt we don't do that anymore. That's not what we're doing we're not. We're not requiring people to follow certain religions and if they were going to kill them for the most part so like so that power structure has changed a lot and it still means a great deal these institutions still mean a great deal to some people and but i think we have to ask the question. What is the value here. Now i do not think that asking about the value of individuals is helpful or necessary but in the case of institutions. They must give back to the communities that sustain them the british royal family is a budget item for the national government. They receive many benefits from the people as members of the community who are almost entirely supported by the community. The very existence of the british royal family is brought to you by a lot of people who probably aren't into it in the same way the church at least here in the. Us is subsidized by the government in the form of being tax exempt which is great on one hand because it saves the church from contributing to projects they find morally suspect but it is easily mishandled as we have seen time and time and time again because of the ways. These institutions are beholden to the government. A government run by the people. They often have to make concessions and are rendered powerless by the same thing that sustains them it means they have a special obligation to serve that community intangible ways and in many cases the british row family in the church. Do this well. And i probably don't have to go through examples of how they do not do this. Well one of the other. Similarities is the ceremonial aspect right weddings pop circumstance but the british royal family. You're getting sabres metals. Big hats horses ballgowns very exciting churches. The same way like we do a great job with the ceremonial aspect incense investments and good music and candles. Unfortunately no horses yet. So i think the british royal family it helps to define british culture. The church helps define faith culture. But as we've moved into modernity we see other entities to finding these boundaries right. British culture is now just as much about indian food because of gut old fashioned dose of colonialism and the spice girls as it is the queen faith culture is just as much justin bieber and podcasting as it is the governing bodies of our denominations. So what changed the thing that changed his access. Can you imagine the commoners of the sixteenth century overhearing. Henry the eighth. Tell amblin that he wishes he could be her tampon. Fun fact yes. That conversation between prince charles and his then mistress camilla parker-bowles actually took place on a recorded phone call. What if all of twelfth century england heard one of their kings make racist remarks about the skin color of one of his family members not only did access change but we can see the rulers. We know they are fallible. They make mistakes queen elizabeth for all the ways. She's weathered storms in her life for all of the way. She appears to be a faithful christian. She still continues to stick by prince entry. Who has been accused of sex trafficking and sexual abuse. Can you imagine someone like thomas. Cranmer having a twitter account like the pope does now there are positives and negatives for access but the main positive is that we know people are people for better or for worse than i think something else that changed as just modernity as england moved into a new age. That came with things like you know. Royals wanting to marry commoners divorced commoner wanting to get their own divorces before this was a matter for the church. But now it's more a matter for the secular legal system. In fact given that the monarch is also the head of the anglican church heirs to the throne were effectively. Forbidden from marrying divorced people getting divorced themselves and those are the dulcet tones of. Isn't it ironic violence. Marcet somehow wafting through the hallways of henry the eighths court and then i think we have all understood the wizard of oz affect right people have moved on. We know kings and queens. Don't have any more divine right to rule than you are. I have divine right to any other job. We've seen the man behind the curtain. Both in church and the british royal family. So what do we do with this. And what can the british royal family. Teach the church so there are a few lessons here right. i think the first one is rigid. For rigetti sake is pointless. The british royal family has protocol in procedures for almost every waking moment of their lives. Now this serves them from awkward encounters but it also removes them from actively being humans with emotions and feelings and desires. What traditions are simply performed for their own sake. And how does that allow us as the body of christ to enter into the suffering. Enjoy of others as we are committed to. I think another thing that they can teach us is the power structure fluctuate one day or in one day out. I think because the queen has been with us for so long we can see a history of the nation embracing her and the nation hating her. What never changed was the queen's consistency..

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