Listen: Winnetka, Ten Percent discussed on 10% Happier with Dan Harris
"Yeah. Being mindful. You know, lifting moving place in you as you walk. Yeah. Eating the raisins. Right. So all the traditional mindfulness not necessarily looking at the operating system. Exactly. Or whatever. The I don't even mean, the you're not necessarily. Getting down to something more real in yourself. One of your argument is that meditation isn't gonna fix all of your problems that other things namely psychotherapy are also really important, my psychotherapy might not fix all of your problems. Either argue that these books you had a quote in one of your earlier books, and I don't know if it's from you or somebody else that psychotherapy can bring you understanding without relief. Yeah. That's familiar. Yeah. I know I know indeed. If we are only saying that that's that's from Winnetka. That's when I remember, so, but you have a little bit of a contrarian streak in you about the current mindfulness revolution that it's not the only thing the only modality we should be reaching four. Can you just say more about that? Because I feel like it will build upon the discussion we've been having well in the in the Buddhist way of thinking, and including to Buddhist psychology. And so on mindfulness is an introductory practice. You know, it's like it's like the way into examining the self so to to take mindfulness away from that context and presented here in the west as a complete thing in and of itself. It seems to me clearly like we're short changing people. So I'm all for like I've been involved in this from the beginning of mindfulness coming into a western psychology. I'm all for it. It's been it's enormously helpful for lots and lots of people. But the tendency is to you know, like with Prozac when Prozac came everyone wanted to take Prozac because they thought, oh, this is the thing. That's the magic thing that's gonna make me feel better. And some people Prozac really worked for them. You know, like nothing else ever ever had before. And then for lots of people presented nothing just gave them side effects or did nothing at all. So the hunger for like, the one thing that's going to, you know, fix everything leads a lot of people to mindfulness because it's new, and there's a lot of it has a lot of charisma for the moment. And inevitably people are going to be disappointed because it can't to you know, to try to overwork it is just going to be frustrating for for lots of people. So I'm foreseeing that coming which is why I'm, you know, cautious about there's a real tendency in my field the field of psychotherapy for young therapists in training to want to learn to be a mindfulness based therapist, and that they come into it wanting to do that they spend their graduate school learning to do that. And and they never. Learn anything from the whole tradition of psycho dynamic psychotherapy like that's just like over with. So then they're going to be dealing with people. And in intense interpersonal situations, and they're not gonna have the wisdom of psychotherapy to turn to to help to help deal with these the, you know, more intense kinds of disturbances that that healthy people. Have you know? So I could really see as your I could really here as you're speaking that that what a big influence you've had on me because I knew right at the beginning of my meditation career, and I think that's inevitably what led me to take the sort of ten percent, happier route. And also, you know, when people ask me, you know, I I try to be very careful to say like, I don't think I'm not a meditation supremacist. You know, then I don't think it's the king. Of all modalities. I think you we know there are a bunch of things that work when it comes to mental wellbeing. They include medication psychotherapy getting enough sleep exercise, positive relationships, meaningful work diet. And so we should be reaching for all these things.."