Stephenville, Eight Hours, One Thousand Nine Hundred Percent discussed on Nerdlab Podcast

Nerdlab Podcast


Uh-huh yeah but for me RPG's are the pinnacle of games and even if they are not directly comparable I thought about what makes you said it's not pleasant to what is in between for you I mean just just going back to what you've identified there a few for me and I'm not a book that right down at the end of the scale and I have no problem with Stephenville these one of my favorite designers and I love ninety nine percents of these games well one hundred maybe one thousand nine hundred percent let's go to the other end of the scale on a on a euro game we try feelings very matic and it's Flam Rouge flood the fact that you ruining out of college in your deck and you become more and more exhausted it's brilliant on is extremely thematic and I would say that is a very good example of the thing Matt Euro Game I really didn't know that game but it sounds it sounds great yup for me it's all it's all about the decisions so suddenly you have decisions to make the game we not only are important decisions to make in the game book the outcome of those decisions has a realistic thing Mattie count you can actually imagine going Oh i'll tell you what I need for wood to build a shed and I'm really need that forward now because Dave's coming around tomorrow to build a shed so I'll tell you what yeah today I'm going to go to the forest and I'm going to spend all day and I'm going to work really hard and I'll get forward but then tomorrow I'm going to be fatigued to be able to do less on the next day you can going back to the immersion thing again you now feel that your character in the game and you've actually made that decision and you know if more games were like where they there was thematic explanations for the rules and the game mechanic supported it then then not you know because a lot of people assume that because I'm a Euro Gamer I don't like the Mattie Games and he's completely wrong you know it's just that most of the Games play don't have many rules in them but when they have rules if I was playing that game to describe to you and I'm hoping one of your listeners now goes often designs reading and the the rules of the game and the mechanisms in the game actually made me feel that this is a this is a real situation where you know the decision is I make are actually they matter more or less assimilation of the real world in the question really is from owners perspective is how much of the real life do you want to simulate in your game because in some ways you have to abstract your game I mean of course go to the to the forest and trump some some would there but in real life maybe your wife calls and you have to go home because your kid fall of some of the better world so you have to have to abstract the game and do you have any tips or advice for for game designers how to the sweet spot here between simulation and abstraction of of the real life well thing is with the gaming industry the Gaming Hobby as it is now there are so how many games coming out the their games which you can appeal to different target audiences I'm GonNa gain came out a few years ago called the colonists I was very surprised when the colonists came out because if you were to play the full game colonists with four players it's eight hours games don't come on take eight hours to play anymore it's a rarity and if somebody had said to me if you said to me now pool game designing it's going to be great take eight hours to play I would advise you not to do that because your target audience as it small and most people don't want a game that big in that title but there are some people that do so bearing in mind for me to give any advice it really depends I might one again where I put my work on space and get three would I might want that other people might want it the like I described choose to leave work early can only get two would or I can stay late and get full what some people might want some people might want every every day you have to draw around even card in your wife calls and your kids falling over at school and you've got to leave work and you've got to do a lot they might want the more realistic you make your game the more rules you're going to have to add and the comes a point where you just go wait a minute we've played one round of this game and he's taken us three hours because I'm rolling the dice to see with across the road without getting you can you can go crazy and yet my only advice if you need aside from the star what kind of game you want to make all you're going to make the ultimate realistic simulation of life or are you going to make a game which plays in thirty in his and once you've got your original concept then you need to play with people who are not your friends I mean that's my biggest piece of advice for any any gamers plagued with your friends well play them with your friends to see if it works but then don't listen to what they say because they're going to say it's great take independent play test groups and get feedback from other people and if you've got your your ultimate gain that you've designed and you take it to a play test weekend and nineteen out of the twenty people who give you feedback let's say the gang was too long and too complicated you need to change it you need to listen to that because otherwise what it depends on why you WanNa make the if you WanNa make again just for yourself that's fine but if you WANNA make a game that's going to be marketable you need to listen to independent advice from from third parties Yeah Yeah great thank you for the for the advice here I really like it and maybe we can we can talk more about designing games because a lot of the listeners of the show are a game design as I think we re tackle something here that that can be interesting so you talked about the difference between setting and theme so when you start to create a game came to design a game what do you need in the beginning do you do you start with the setting in mind or do you start with a theme in mind or do you start with headaches in mind and put the theme or the setting on top of that so what would be your advice eight eight eight can be all of them I mean according and to be G G I am a game designer because I did the last two major expansions apart from I wouldn't actually say I'm a game designer there isn't a the I have created designed on how published now I've been designing gains myself for like twenty years some people I would I would say the setting is not something you would start with using the definition of setting as I described only wrong which is just the world the game is played unless you have particular things I want to I want to design a game about building underwater cities right okay there you go you designing design about building a new world cities then where do you go from there do you start with the theme and work backwards or do you start with your mechanisms and work forward but before that you need to decide what kind of game you WanNa make are you designing a cooperative game are you designing a competitive game or you can he designed one that has a particular victory condition or that has victory points do you play a trading in the game do you want player interaction in the game all of these things you kind of need to decide what you want in the in the game I and although I'm not technically designed my own games republished as I mentioned I've had so many ideas for games in the past and I can talk through where the ideas came from and generally speaking they're all inspirations thing that happened to me in real life gave me an inspiration and I thought our there's a cool idea I'm going to turn that into a game an unusually as far as I get which is why publicized so for me it starts with you know the abrasion whether I'm out on a walk or I'm having shower do most of my best thinking in the shower a few years ago I was cutting the hedge in the back of our garden it was overgrowing and it was an overgrowth way too much and I'm not really a big garden I was getting really fed up of the fight was growing all the time and suddenly it happened all of these ideas about a game about gardening and how you have to maintain the garden and then I started thinking about how to shower awesome why if I have a game oh yeah and then over a over a few day period I came up with what I think is an excellent concept for game and that's as far as I go I have the concept of this game it's called English country garden every player he's trying to grow flowers in their own garden on whoever's got the best garden at the end of the month or the year wins right now that sounds really boring doesn't it well I like gardening I would probably would probably add a seasons here because the gardens look very different in different seasons yet so there's a very nice for for the autumn season so this four seasons and you'll score points at the end of each season and who got the most points at the end of the will win the day you got right here's the twist it's in the future nice okay whether control machine in the town the guy who runs the weather control machine can be bribed with various objects so what's what's going to happen I'm going to buy some strange purple seeds and I'm going to plummet them but my strange purposes needed to be cold and wet for them to grow so I will I will bribe because no the guy who works on the weather control machine he likes Formula One so I'm going to buy him a subscription to a Formula One magazine in the hope that he will alter the weather to make it cold and wet so that my plants do better now unfortunately you bowl plans that needed to be sunny and dry so your plans die because you didn't bribe him as much as me so all of a sudden we've got this this cute idea for these gardening game set in a small English village but certainly in the future a alien plum certain weather control machines and that's as far as I go I don't have any of the mechanics of the guy I have no mechanisms in the game at all I have a concept so that's that's where a lot of my ideas came from is juiced inspiration from things that are happening we then wanted to turn into games I guess for me going back to the question is where would I go next with dot game is I would now start thinking what mechanisms would were gain mechanisms work for that game to be would there be a blind bidding system where in a particular phase of the game everybody makes a blind bid to Derrick who works in the weather control machine building and whoever's got the highest bid you know but then again I hate blind bidding so would designed game that includes although blinding might be the best mechanism for that game that the thematically is the Roy Walton would I want to design again we've blind bidding when I hate finding out of the game mechanism so yeah all of those things to think about but yeah I'd have probably started next if I was to continue with our game with the mccown gang mechanisms next bull the setting came first because it was it was an idea okay that is let me throw them in yeah Mark Rosewater Design of magic the gathering all distinguish between top down and bottom up design right yeah for me this what what you described is top down design yes because you start with a specific setting in mind wild with bottom ups design you would start with the mechanic or some kind of rule in mind yeah so interesting aspect is that both designed purchase can lead to incredible magic the gathering sets yes oh two of my favorite sets in magic are instruct and cons of Turkey for example and in this is a game in which is a as in Gothic horror theme or in the Gothic horror setting if we stick with your different Yep and this was completely designed top-down okay and cons of talk on the other side was designed with the idea of having three different Ed's one large one small one and then again a large one and and this is specific thing about is is that the middle set the small one is easy late with the latch that the first or the second of the Cert lobster okay and You would never play all this together Russell this was a new way of drafting the game but it was not medic at all but both protest created very very good magic that's for me the do you think it is important to start the design principle theme in mind or do you think it can be also possible to start without setting at all you can start without setting at all I mean going by Stephan felt as I mentioned earlier my favorite designers I'm pretty sure aw Stefan has the mechanisms I I'm pretty sure he doesn't say I'm going to I'm going to try and design a game set in the city of Bruges.

Coming up next