Twenty Twenty, America, Malaria discussed on RUMBLE with MICHAEL MOORE
FM or the anchor APP will get you there This is rumble and Michael Moore and my special guest. Today is Dr Zeke Manual Dr Manual was the chair of the department bioethics at the National Institutes of Health from Nineteen Ninety seven to two thousand eleven I'm sure many of you remember that he was key instrumental in US Getting the what is called the Obamacare Act passed the affordable care act In what was deeply involved with President Obama in trying to For really the first time to have a habit possible that Every American could could be covered and not have to worry about going to the doctor Currently a doctor manuals the vice provost of a global initiatives at the University of Pennsylvania. And on lately you've probably seen a lot on TV He's the Co Host of the Endeavour. A podcast called making the call. He has now. I I think once a week I think it's on Friday nights. He has been on Either with Ali belchior Lawrence O'Donnell on a series Called a life during the time of the corona virus and And instead of having to talk in sound bites or whenever we get a full hour As to what we're all going through this has been helpful Dr Manual also co edited. The new book The trillion dollar revolution. How the Affordable Care Act transformed politics law and healthcare in America? Dr Manual Zeke. Welcome to my podcast. Great to be here. Thank you Michael. For having me I saw you on Wolf Blitzer actually on the MSNBC competing network at the very beginning of this And I talked about this on my podcast and Wolf asked you a question the question everybody sure asks you every day. How long is this going to last? Once it's going to be over. We want this over with now. And I'm in day sixty of my own self imposed Quarantine in my apartment. So I went out like everybody else but when he asked you that question. I believe this is this was maybe and February could have been might have been the beginning of March and you said just very nonchalantly to him but very direct very with the doctor's voice when he said. How long is this going to last? And you said while I believe this could be a two year pandemic. Those were your words. Two Year Pandemic Wolf. Who is usually a fairly sedate person? Goes what it was like. Are you kidding me? And you then answered it and I'm GonNa let you answered here for the people Listen to this but I have to say man. He went right off from you to the other person never came back to the fact that you had just said this could possibly last for two. And you try to explain that it's GonNa be a wave that doesn't mean we're imprisoned for two years necessarily but I just WANNA start there because they never came back to you. I would like you to explain because you were the first person. As far as I was concerned I was watching a lot of the news channels. Then who just just came out and said the uncomfortable inconvenient truth and It turned my head around and I didn't depress me. I didn't think Oh. All Hope is lost. I started thinking. Oh Oh that's okay now. Somebody has said what we're dealing with. Now we can start to figure out how to deal with it so I turn it over to you to explain what you meant when you shocked at least me if not the rest of. Everybody was watching. Cnn a day when you said this could possibly be two year pandemic. Well there's only two ways of getting out of a situation where you have very infectious at potentially lethal virus. One issue get enough herd immunity in the community And the country so that the arnauts however many people get spread to goes down below one Which means that. The virus basically dies out. And you don't get spread of virus. That'll require sixty seventy eighty percent of the population to have been immune to the virus. That's going to take time Our you know call it. Two and a half months into covert nine thousand nine hundred maybe three months into cove in nineteen and even on the best estimates were have maybe ten million people twelve million people in America in fact it that is three percent of the population. That's far from seventy eighty ninety percent of the population And so it'll take us a long time to get that kind of heard immunity the other kind of immunity. You can get is if you have a vaccine And then you can distribute it Sixty seventy eighty percent of the population And that if you play out How long it's GonNa take us to get a vaccine. You know you're out in somewhere fall. Twenty twenty one and that as everyone who comments on this who's responsible and comments on the says if everything goes perfectly and the last time we went perk perfectly in drug development vaccine development was never you know there's always always some hitch. That comes after something unexpected. You know you tested out in a few hundred people and maybe you get to a few thousand people in something. Unexpected happens so if you just you know we have rushed it. We were already in humans. I you know So God bless them. Wow Yeah I mean so we're out there and we're testing. What's called phase one? That's the safety testing now. What's interesting is that some of these axes that we've put into people already haven't even put into animals now that's on the hypothesis that they're very safe and they probably are very safe But then you've got to test them in you've gotta give the body a chance to react and see if there any side effects. That doesn't happen overnight. Then you have to look at that date and make sure that we're protecting people you know. See if there's anything serious comes up then you have to have enough to distribute To people you know the tests The number of tests Needed for an evaluation of whether this is effective at preventing Cova. Ninety Nine. I've you know eight to twenty thousand people. Well that's GonNa take time to enroll them and then you have to wait for them to develop antibodies and see if they're protected from getting an infection from covert so they need to be exposed to covert and that's going to take time So you know even if we ramp up production of this vaccine. Not knowing whether it's going to work on the promise that it's GonNa Work. We're still talking Sometime in two twenty one when we're going to have enough data to know whether this thing works well enough to distribute it to people and has a good enough safety profile. Now you're not gonNA immediately have three hundred million doses three hundred and thirty million doses for everyone in the population right. That's GONNA take time. And I've talked to officials at Johnson and Johnson and they think by the end of twenty twenty one they'll have could have a billion doses. You have to manufacture them. You have to distribute them to and they have to administer them into people and again. None of that happens overnight. It takes time which is why I think we're talking about at the earliest. If everything goes perfectly fall twenty twenty one more likely you know early. Twenty twenty two but that. That's so that's the timeline. And it's very hard to compress at time. I much further than we've compressing and that's if everything goes right. Exactly you said doesn't happen so I mean it's this is what and this is why I really wanted to talk to you because really I know you and I know that you are a Truth Teller. And you're you're the doctor we all. Everybody wants to have that kind of doctor. Just Gimme the truth. Don't sugarcoat it. Don't try to if I cry. I cry but I. I'm better off with knowledge than than sending me home with hope. I don't want hope I wanNA know. What can I do to live? You've just give me some bad news. What am I going to do to live? And am I just when we talk about this vaccine and you say like this has never happened in this kind of speed and in this fashion I I ask. We're how's The vaccine for malaria? Coming House the House. That's why I've been working on that for seven years My Dad had GI fever. World War Two. He's in the South Pacific. The Marines. I'll house the vaccine for that coming house. The vaccine coming for I mean. Just go down the list of I H H. We don't have a vaccine now. We have treatment and and fortunately less people have died now as a result of that. Thank God but We don't have a vaccine for that. We don't have a vaccine for the common cold. How many years of doctors and scientists been trying to just stop the common cold? It doesn't exist so I just think that I don't believe in giving people false hope. I believe in realistic. Hope but not promising something that we cannot absolutely Garrett. Well not only am. It doesn't have to be absolutely that we can reasonably guarantee that. We're going to have this vaccine in everybody's waiting for this and what I the discussion. I WANNA have with people as well. What if that doesn't happen? What if this like malaria that we've never been able to come up with a vaccine for what is it? What are we going to do? What is the plan and and we need more of you and more people like you just saying things not the things that we want to hear. I mean I don't know what I mean. I don't maybe your wife had through on broadcast. Or whatever says to Zeke. You could've tamped down a little bit. You Look I think. Part of the problem is you have to give people a structure and a planning. If it's going to be hard. They need to know it's hard you know. I always. I apologize to sitting on an airplane. What do I want the pilot to tell me? You know we're going to be moving in a minute and then thirty minutes later. We're not moving. No feel pissed off at that on the other hand. If the pilot tells me you know we've got this situation. It's probably going to be twenty minutes. I'll get back to you in twenty minutes and update with what's happening. That's what you WanNa hear and that allows you to plan your life. It allows you to make clear it allows you to make certain in the case of covert demands on the politicians as to how to help you how to help businesses through this And so I think that's what people really want in this idea that I actually chloroquine it's going to carry it or the summer's coming. It just GONNA magically disappear. I think that's quite difficult for people because I know it's not true. And then it's hard to figure out what is true I can't trust this person that they keep telling me stuff. That doesn't seem quite right. So I I do think that there's a value in understanding the timelines and being able to plan for all of us are plan for it also gives us an understanding. Well what can we do between now and then to get parts of the economy going? You know what? How much risks are we going to be willing to take in this.