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This is broken Jeffrey Epstein I'm are led this week reporter Julie K Brown it was one of those kinds of careers where you know you start at the bottom bottom the Miami Herald and about how she was able to break one of twenty eighteen biggest stories I'm a runner and run a lot and one of my go-to run songs is a song by ACDC called it's a long way to the top if you WanNa rock and roll and really it's been a long haul hi Adam pay Ari so Adam this week you talk with Julie AK Brown who's one of our executive producers on this show what made you WanNa do that well Julie of course is the Miami Herald reporter who's incredible series about Jeffrey Epstein almost exactly a year ago is the reason his name was thrust into the public conversation the reason and we're pretty sure he was rearrested and then ultimately killed himself the reason we're having this big national conversation including this podcast about hat how a man could just so blatantly and flagrantly commit such vile sexual crimes against children for so long and and it all goes back to Julie and all goes back to what I've learned about Julie that Julie Brown has an amazing story in and of itself she really did not grow up with the a lot of opportunity thrust at her with a lot with an easy pathway and she worked hard her whole life doggedly often in obscure at corners of journalism but just focused wouldn't take no for an answer and it made me realize that understanding Julie Story is part of this because because of who she is that she was the one who brought this story forward when so many others who received the benefits of our establishment look the other way made accommodations to Epstein's wealth she's sort of the opposite of everyone else we know in journalism in New York who's gone to an Ivy League school and just had this direct path into the establishment really so tell me about that the only thing I know about Julie's childhood from her twitter bio is that she's crazy about Philadelphia yeah well she has definitely crazy about Philadelphia even though she lives in Miami and I live in New York I feel like we talk about Philadelphia almost every time we talk although she didn't grow up in Philadelphia she grew up in an outer suburb called Sellers Ville and that's what I asked her about when we sat down together great you take it from here thanks to Julie grew up in the nineteen sixties and seventies in a middle class town with her sister and brother and their mom and her family was seen as something of a black sheep back then it was frowned upon for a woman to be single with three children ESPEC- early in the Middle Class neighborhood where we grew up so we were pretty much ostracized by a lot of people in the neighborhood she remembers being bullied at the bus stop when she was little the scariest time was mischief night the night before Halloween that's when the neighborhood kids would all come out and it would dirt bomber house and break the windows and I remember sitting in the living room every mischief night just holding hands with my mother and my brother and my sister just thinking I wonder what we're going to do this year Julie says her childhood was rough enough that she has blocked a lot out and doesn't remember many of the details I found so striking that Julie's childhood seemed so similar to many of Epstein's victims she was this young girl who didn't have parents able to protect her and guide her I could relate to some of these women in the Epstein story because they didn't necessarily come from situation where their parents were abusive but they came from situations where their parents were working so hard that they were never around and you sometimes go down the wrong path when that happens her single mom was just scraping by the Power Company wants came to her childhood home and took their furniture when they couldn't pay the electric bill she had no dad around and Julie mom didn't or couldn't make time for the kids don't know she knew how to really be a mother Kris she was working you know in her defense she was working she had in supporting three children on her own and she worked two jobs and she was just working I was beating myself up thinking when I was in a good daughter in that must be why my mom wasn't there for me you know she was just never really there for me so I started and met some people who were older who just became my friends and my to some degree my parents because I didn't really have parents you know and feel like they were ever therefore me coming home from school no one to talk to you know I just felt very alone in my life so at sixteen Julie moved out legally I signed papers become a mandate it began living with some friends who were older than I and just tried to I make my way she moved in with some older girlfriends who are already out of school so she's sixteen going to high school during the day and working working constantly they started at James Way if you've ever it's like the old version of Kmart I worked at a James Way starting I think when I was in high school and then I worked at our shop delivering flowers and then I worked at the lampshade factory than I worked in a paper packaging company Then I b eighteen of a clerk in a belt company Schommer Caroline's Oh literal bells yeah real bells this will as you'll see a theme Angelique life constantly working multiple jobs never giving up these days after years of therapy and becoming a mom herself Julie says she no longer resents her mother and is able to see that she did get this unstoppable grit from her my mom's mantra all the time which my sister and he's kind of roll our eyes at but it's really true she would always say Julie only the strong survive she would say that all the time so that's reality that kind of cut embedded in my head from the time I was little and it sort of made me keep thinking okay take another breath you're GonNa get through this all these trucks five at sixteen working one of her jobs taking care of little kids at a daycare Julie met an older woman Candice Cross who changed her life she's funny because I used to go to the daycare center in my high heels and I was sort of like I don't know I didn't really fit in this is a daycare worker wearing you know daycare close I was always wearing short skirts and heels and things like that so they used to make fun of me and I don't we just hit it off and she was much older than me she's younger than my mother but a motherly kind of figures for me and they always made me feel like I could he's something more with my life candace was an artist she and her husband John Lived on a farm I just felt like I'd never met anybody like the these people before they were sort of ex hippies and we would I would end up over at the farm just solving all the world's problems over a couple of glasses of wine as Julie told the story of candace and John Croft I found myself thinking of Jeffrey Epstein Angeline Maxwell who were masters at playing the part of a caring older couple who only wanted to help young women achieve their dreams Julie Sixteen on our own was as vulnerable as any of Epstein victims but she was lucky the older couple she met were good they were kind and genuine supportive and they opened the world for her they looked at the world in a different way than I had ever known before so it was just something in my ahead that I kept thinking wow there's a whole nother way that I could live my life you don't besides just waiting tables and trying to figure out how I pay my next bill I could do art I could do writing I could just more of an intellectual way of living my life Julie worked for four years after high school but with candace John's encouragement she decided to apply to Temple University temple gave her a full ride but Julie wasn't sure what to study I knew I love journalism I was the high school paper but I saw you know I'm not going to be able to make a living as journalists but my very first Journalism Class that very first semester I took a class with a professor who was a full time reporter at the POTTSTOWN Mercury newspaper her and he offered me an internship the following semester and I worked pottstown mercury in and was going out to all kinds of cool stories and I did so well at it that they offered me a fulltime job at the mercury but it had taken me for years to get to school and I wasn't GonNa leave at that point and so thankful okay I stayed there and then the next summer to public relations internship in Philadelphia and I hated it and then I did a an hardship the following year at NPR in Washington sort of talked my way into it I called them up one day and offered to do an internship there and anyway all those intern ships kind of led me to what I really wanted to do which was right for newspapers Julie graduated and actually got a job in journalism she was hired as a reporter we're at the Bethlehem Globe Times small regional paper but it did not feel like the start of a promising and lucrative career in the field Julie's new job almost named set up for her to fail my first or second day on that job all of a sudden we saw these police officers outs aside and the editor who hired me came over to me and said I gotTa tell you something we just laid off half the staff they had hired me to replace the this woman who had been doing the job forever and I'm covering the Bethlen Police Department and the cops didn't WanNa talk to me for the longest time because they were uh-huh angry that my predecessor had gotten fired and not only I mean fired in a very ugly way really and so it took me a long time didn't make inroads with the police department that's when Julie tapped into her superpower superpower her mom had given her she was going to be the stronger the person who survived and she was going to work as hard as she had to to get ahead I just kept plugging away and I don't know sometimes when people tell we know or they're not gonNA corporate with me it makes me try even harder to win their trust you know and that was part of what I did I think at that job Julie built a career moving from tiny small town paper to small town paper she covered the police and local government she even wrote obituaries for Weil which by the way was a great beat I think I learned a lot about writing doing opitz actually cause somebody just random person you have to figure out how to make yeah words or whatever interest yeah I'd love doing obituaries because we did them like really creative lay back then not like how they're done now you really called and interviewed people who knew the person die so you know I learned a lot during that Julie also got married had two kids she was building in Pennsylvania doing what she had barely dreamed was possible but her worries she had a student never went away it was hard to make a living as journal.