Andrew Johnson, Congress, President Trump discussed on All In with Chris Hayes


The criminal offense sized raised because they've already been either charged convicted investigated for engaging in this bribery type conduct and so it makes sense that impeachment language would look like the criminal context context language but of course that's not the case presidents so the set of impeachments is a small one man. We've got four impeach an increase of presidents and we've only got two actual impatience happen the first one we did a whole podcast about it with Brenda Wine Apple. Who wrote that book which you and I have both read? And there's a bunch of stuff that's interesting about ended on one. Is that like they have to figure out the procedure. They have to figure out like they're doing all of it for the first time. There's very little for them to work off of for precedent. Even though there's been other impeachments there hasn't been a president but but there's one article of impeachment. That is the most interesting to me that gets the least historical attention. I think which is what you've been sort of writing about. Yeah so I really don't feel like going to hijack this podcast is like a little advertisement for my law review article. No yeah that's what you're here for but so right so I'm writing this Article Real Division. Promotion uh-huh flushing. I'm writing this article about the role of speech in previous impeachment efforts so I started just kind of reading about impeachment history over the summer or which is obviously fortuitous. Because I'm pretty steep at least the secondary literature and I'm not a historian so I've read someone up all of the primary sources but I was just curious how the Congress's that have considered and then actually taken steps impeach. Previous presidents have thought about the president's speech and the role of presidential speech in those impeachment effort so they Andrew Johnson impeachment. Effort was on its surface largely about in the articles focused on Johnson's violation of the statute called the tenure of office act which required him. MM to obtain Senate consent before firing cabinet secretary so he in violation of the statute fired. His worst secretary who he had inherited from. Lincoln had been Lincoln's War Secretary Edwin Stanton and so ten of the twelve articles against Andrew. Johnson really focus on that violation but then two of them and in particular. The tenth article are totally different and the tenth article is really about Johnson's public speeches and in particular his attacks in public on Congress is accused of these intemperate harangues that are peculiarly indecent and unbecoming the Chief Magistrate of the United States in article ten intemperate harangues the peace. Tim for intemperate harangues literally. They did Among other things so one of Oh I think kind of deep points that Brenda wine making this book. The teacher's is the conduct described in article. Ten and article eleven and so ten is about his public speech in eleven is really kind kind of more broadly about his kind of thwarting of reconstruction right. That's a little bit more explicit. An article eleven but that those are the things he was really impeached for that. The tenure of office act was an excuse abuse and it was an error in misstep on the part of the Republican Congress to try to sort of execute this narrow and formalistic legalistic impeachment meant rather than sort of forthrightly. Tell the country why they believe Johnson was unfit to remain in office. But there are glimpses of maybe the true motivations nations that you can sort of find an article ten and eleven and ten is really the thing I focus on in that part of and some of the speech I mean just to be clear like he was by all accounts drunk. He was a demagogue he would get up in front of crowds in his staff would try to stop him from getting crowds because he will get worked up and say anything including when he did this disastrous tour around the country for the midterms which is famously called the swing around the circle you've gotten from crowds and they would yell at him about the massacres that had happened in the South Against Union loyalists and African Americans and they would say you know Hang Jefferson Davis. He would yell back then. Why don't you hang thaddeus Stevens like that Stevens? A sitting member of Congress and the President of the United States yelling at a mob. Like why don't you hang that Stevens is like I would say even by the Donald Trump standards probably more extreme than anything. Donald Trump has said more explicit. I think that's right. I mean it does feel like incitement and reform a legal terms right sort of you. You know that kind of encouragement gohmert action and so he does this at couple of stops on this swing around the circle. Interestingly and I've never been able to figure this out those those sentences like those particular statements are Actually Not specifically enumerated in article ten. It's kind of the more general anti-congress rhetoric that he has brought Congress right. This coequal branch took government into disrepute and the sort of unpresidential tenor of his rhetoric is very much. What is being described in article so those beaches are very much encompassed within? I WanNa talk about the parallels between the first presidential impeachment of Andrew Johnson. And what we're seeing now with trump right after we take this break. If you don't know your numbers you don't Know Your Business. Most most companies don't have a clear picture of their business.

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