Safety facebook. Whistle blower francis hogan went on to urge lawmakers to take action against facebook. Facebook wants you to believe that the problems we're talking about our unsolvable they want you to believe in false choices. They want you to believe that you must choose between facebook full of divisive in extreme content or losing one of the most important values. Our country was founded on free speech. That you must choose between public oversight of facebook's choices and your personal privacy that to be able to share fun photos of your kids with old friends you must also be inundated with anger driven reality. They want you to believe that this is just part of the deal. I'm here today to tell you. That's not true. These problems are solvable. A safer free speech respecting more enjoyable. Social media is possible. But there's one thing that. I hope everyone takes away from. These disclosures is that facebook and change. But it's clearly not going to do so on its own. My fears that without action. Divisive and extremists behaviors. We see today are only the beginning. What we saw in me on mar and are now seen in. Ethiopia are only the opening chapters of a story so terrifying. No one wants to read the underbid. A tuesday's hearing the senate subcommittee chair democratic connecticut senator richard blumenthal compared facebook to big tobacco and big tech faces that big tobacco jaw dropping. Moment of truth. It is documented. Prove it facebook knows its products can be addictive and toxic to children are. Children are the ones who are victims today. Looking at themselves in the mirror. Feel doubt and insecurity marks up. A bird ought to be looking at himself in her today and yet rather than taking responsibility and showing leadership mr zuckerberg is going. Sailing is new modus operandi. No apologies no admission. No action nothing to see here. Mark zuckerberg you need to come before this committee. You need to explain to francis hogan to us to the world and to the parents of america what you were doing. And why you get hours. After facebook whistle blower francis. How testified facebook. Ceo mark zuckerberg responded in a message. Posted on facebook. Writing quote at the heart of these accusations. Is this idea that we prioritize prophet over safety and wellbeing. That's just not true. Zakar went on to write the argument that we deliberately push content that makes people angry for profit is deeply logical. We make money from ads and advertisers consistently tell us they don't want their ads next to harmful or angry content. He said to talk more about face. But we're joined by two guests. In san francisco. Roger mcnamee is back with us. Early investor in facebook mentor to the ceo. Mark zuckerberg then went on to write the book duct waking up to the facebook. Catastrophe and in los angeles. We're joined by jessica solace co-ceo of the media advocacy group free press and co-founder of change the terms coalition that works to disrupt hate online. She's also member of the real facebook oversight board for those of you who watch democracy yesterday. These were our two guests leading up to the hearing and we thought we'd have you back to see what you were most affected by. What were you most surprised by roger. Mcnamee let's begin with you today. You know mark zuckerberg well. You were his mentor. Early investor in facebook talk about how significant this testimony is. Can you explain one thing. What is this issue of the algorithm. How does it give the lie to what zuckerberg said. We're not trying to increase. Hate and anger so the thing here is there to basic problems that we're dealing with. One is the culture of american business where. Ceo's are told to prioritize shareholder value at all costs and it's a little bit like the excuse. I'm just following orders right. That absolves essentially all manner sense. And that's a big part of the problem at facebook. Essentially think about the business this way. Advertising is the core of their economy. They get that through attention and facebook created a global network where people shared things with their intimate friends. And what happened was facebook was the first medium on earth to get access to what i call the inner self the characteristics of people they would normally only disclose to their most intimate partners friends family and in marketing. That stuff is gold and the thing is it's not just valuable traditional markers it's incredibly valuable to scammers and people who are doing things that would otherwise be legal. And if you think about what. Facebook did by connecting the whole world. It brought the world of scams into the mainstream. So when mark says something like well. You know our advertisers consistently tell us they don't want to be by know hostile. Contact the problem with that. Is that some of their biggest most important. Advertisers are the actual people who spread dangerous content. So if you think about stop the steel that was an advertising campaign if you think about anti vacs. Those people are advertisers. And so the issue here for baseball is they've created. This network is essentially an unpatrolled commercial. Place that preys on people's emotions because the best way to get people's attention is to trigger fear or outrage and so the algorithms don't sit there going. I'm looking for fear outrage what they do is they're looking for things that get you to react. And it's simply a fact of human nature of human psychology that fear and outrage of the most effective way to do that and that's why francis hogan's testimonies so devastating because she is an expert in algorithm design. She is completely credible on this issue and the stuff that she shared was not stuff. That was her opinion. It was research created by the best people. Facebook at the direction of facebook's management and so when facebook comes out after saying she only worked there for two years and she wasn't any of the meetings none of that is relevant and it sort of classic deflection by facebook. And i would argue that facebook's responses yesterday really built francis hogan's credibility because if you sat there after that here just ask yourself who did you find more credible.