Listen: President Trump, Vice President, Ukraine discussed on The Lawfare Podcast
"He met with Vice President Pence in Warsaw and on September fifth he met with Senator Senator Ron Johnson Senator Chris Murphy in Cave in none of these meetings. The president's raise any concern about linkage between security assistance attend investigations in particular the September fifth meeting with Senator Johnson. Senator Murphy is notable. Because they're not part of the trump administration and presidents. It's Alinsky could be candid with them. Did occur during those fifty. Five days were historic effort. By Ukraine's parliament called the rata to implement climent anticorruption Vice President Pant said Press Presidents Linski about these reforms during their September. First Meeting in their depositions ambassador Taylor loud presidents. He's rapid reforms and National Security Council official Morrison testified that during a meeting and Kief they noted that everyone in the Ukrainian side of the table was exhausted because they'd been up all night working on these reforms on September eleventh. President trump discussed the matter with vice president pence. Senator Portman Portman enacting chief-of-staff mulvaney according to Tim Morrison's testimony. They discuss whether whether Ukraine's progress on anticorruption reform was enough to justify releasing the security assistance. Mars testified that Vice President Pence was obviously we armed with the conversation he had with President Solanki and they convinced the president at the age should be dispersed immediately the president then and lifted the whole concluding this point we have considerable evidence that president trump was skeptical of Ukraine due to its corruption. We have evidence the President Skeptical Epochal Foreign Assistance in general and he believes strongly our allies should share the burden for regional defense. We know the White House was reviewing foreign assistance in general to ensure it further. US interests and that Oh and be researched and provided information about which foreign countries were contributing money to Ukraine. President Trump told Senator Johnson August thirty. First we're reviewing it now and you'll probably like my final decision. He told ambassador. Silent On. September ninth. I want to lend ski to you. Do what he ran on presidents Alinsky. Who ran on an anti-corruption platform was an untried politician with ties to a potential controversial oligarch vice president pence reiterated presidents Alinsky that on September first the need for reform was paramount after President Linski paused? I'm sorry after presidents alinsky past historic anti-corruption reforms. The pause on security assistance. Vince was lifted and the president's met two weeks later. The Ukrainian government never took any action on investigations at issue in the impeachment inquiry much has been made about so called shadow or irregular foreign policy apparatus. The president trump is alleged to have orchestrated as a mechanism to force Ukraine Ukraine initiate investigations. The allegation is president trump conspired to recall ambassador IANOVICH from Ukraine. So he's agents could pursue was scheme to pressure Ukraine to conduct these investigations but there are logical flaws with these arguments. I every ambassador interviewed in the impeachment. Inquiry acknowledged the president has an absolute right to recall ambassadors for any reason or no reason apparent to president trump. Lost Confidence in Ambassador Bridge. And it's simply not an abuse of power for him to recall her beyond that the trump administration replaced ambassador Yvonne of its with embassador. Bill Taylor who became one of the first State Department officials to voice concerns discussed during the course of our inquiry. Here fact Basseterre Taylor played a prominent role in some of the hearings last month. If president trump truly sought to remove ambassador Ianovich part of various plan. He certainly would not have replaced. Placed her with some of the lights of ambassador. Bill Taylor second the three. US officials who comprise the so-called shadow shadow foreign policy apparatus ambassador Volker Sunland and secretary. Perry can hardly be called irregular and certainly not outlandish all we're senior. US officials with official interest in Ukraine policy the three kept the State Department and the NFC informed of their activities. Finally there is evidence that Mayor Giuliani did not speak on behalf of the president. According to a new story on November twenty. Second Mr Jahr. Mac asked embassador volker to connect Tim with mayor. Giuliani because Alinsky team was surprised. By the NAACP by the mayor's negative comments about Ukraine. They wanted to change his wind. Both embassador Volker in his deposition in your Mac in an August New York Times article denied that mayor. Giuliani was speaking on behalf of president trump as his is agent instead as ambassador Volker explained. The Ukrainian government saw Giuliani as a conduit through which they could change the president's mind the second allegation at issue of course is whether the president obstructive congressman by not agreeing to all the demands for documents and testimony a somebody with experience with the congressional investigations and strongly. I strongly believe in Congress's Article One authority but this impeachment inquiry is departed party drastically from pass. Bipartisan precedents for presidential impeachment as well as the fundamental tenets of fair and effective congressional oversight. I."