Heart Disease, Atherosclerosis, Scobie discussed on The Rich Roll Podcast

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At that studies on this, I'm with you, I don't think there are studies on that. But I choose the raw non pasteurized kombucha. You can find a few of those. There are some here that are found in California. For that reason, I think if you're pasteurizing them and heating them, then you defeat the whole entire purpose of the whole thing. Yeah, those microbes are likely being killed. Now in saying that to add a layer of complexity to this, there is a lot of research now looking at dead microbes. And these are often called post biotics. And there are some studies showing benefit even through the consumption of dead probiotics. So that's interesting. I don't think we fully understand is pasteurized kombucha and perhaps the dead cultures that are in there is that exerting benefit within our gotten downstream. So I think my advice would be to either try and make your own or to look for one that is a raw non pasteurized kombucha. Yeah. Get your Scobie going at home. Yeah. Switching gears, I want to talk about saturated fat when you articulated your thesis at the beginning of the show, a big piece in that was the reduction of saturated fat. And when we talk about saturated fat, this is a hot button, hotly debated thing, particularly on social media, depending upon your particular dietary tribe of choice. The overwhelming evidence from my perspective of valid objective science is pretty clear that saturated fat, no bueno contributing to heart disease and other not so good health outcomes. So walk us through your sense of the science with respect to dietary saturated fat intake, the impact that it has and why we should be reducing it. How far back should we go? I don't know. We got as long as you want. There's a great study from 1908. It still holds up. Yeah, well, it's interesting because pre 1908, atherosclerosis. A lot of what we're talking about when we're talking about saturated fat is its effect on LDL cholesterol and then the effect that that has on the accumulation of fat in your artery, the development of plaque in science called atherosclerosis, which then puts you at higher risk of having a heart attack or a stroke. And prior to 1908, however, the prevailing sort of idea around cardiovascular disease was that it was just a process of aging. And it wasn't necessarily driven through a dietary exposure. And there was this early research goes back to Russia. These Russian scientists were in the lab, the first ones really doing work in this space. And there was a researcher last name ignaz key. And he fed mate and dairy products to a rabbit and was able to see that that rabbit developed fatty shrieks in its arteries. And that was really the very first study that was like hang on. Maybe the development of fatty streaks, atherosclerosis that we're seeing in humans is not just aging. However, from that study, the hypothesis was that it was animal protein. And about four or 5 years later, 1913, Nikolai and nichol quite a famous name in the science world for cardiovascular disease, another Russian. He was looking at the fatty streaks in arteries and could see that there was a lot of cholesterol in there. And so he had a hypothesis that maybe in that 1908 study, maybe it was cholesterol that was in those foods and it wasn't protein that was causing this arterial plot to form. So he ran a study again with a rabbit. And he used a one group with fair to sunflower seed oil and one with fed sunflower seed oil with cholesterol in it. And he was able to see that quite clearly the rabbits that were fed the sunflower oil with cholesterol dissolved into it, developed the fatty streaks and the sort of pathogenesis that goes on to become the pathology that goes on to become atherosclerosis. Now, that research then was really groundbreaking, but what happened was immediately off to that, some other researches and he decided to look at replicating that study in rats and in dogs. So again, fading dietary cholesterol to these animals and looking to see if there was any build up of this fat in the arteries. And what they found was there wasn't. And so they thought this was a bit of an anomaly. Maybe it's just something that happens in a rabbit, which is a herbivore and there was no further science done for quite some time. Now, the key thing that was overlooked there was that in the rabbit model, the rabbit was fed something, it increased the LDL cholesterol in that rabbit, which then had led to the build up of the fatty shriek. The rat and the dog models. The reason there was no fatty fatty buildup in the artery was because they metabolize cholesterol differently. And so the consumption of dietary cholesterol didn't increase their cholesterol levels in their blood. And so having sort of overlooked that and also the fact that all of this was published in Russian, it was kind of parked by by the Russians there and wasn't seen by the rest of the world. And then 20 or 30 years later is when some American researchers kinsale and keys, they were they were looking at metabolic ward studies where they're bringing people in and they wanted to see if they could identify what components of the diet would increase cholesterol levels in the blood. Because the idea at that point in time was that high cholesterol serum cholesterol was driving heart disease. And you got to remember cardiovascular disease peaked in the 1950s. This was, you know, there was essentially a national inquiry following the president of America, president Roosevelt. He died of heart disease in 1944. And so these guys were running these metabolic world studies. And they were able to very clearly show. In humans, when you fade someone saturated fat, you increase the levels of LDL cholesterol in their blood. On the other hand, when you feed someone polyunsaturated fats, you will drive down their cholesterol. In fact, in that calculation, what they were able to deduce was that saturated fat will increase, it will increase cholesterol. At a rate of around twice as much as polyunsaturated fat will lower it. There were also able to tease out that dietary cholesterol in humans. While it doesn't have as significant effect as saturated fat, it still does affect cholesterol levels. And they came up with a calculation that still stands to this day. It still stands to this day. The more saturated fats in the diet and the less polyunsaturated fats, the higher someone's LDL cholesterol levels are. And thus incidents of atherosclerosis. Yes, so what we know is that the higher your LDL cholesterol and the longer you're exposed to that over a lifetime, the higher your risk is to develop atherosclerosis. And there's an interesting study out of Spain called the Pisa study. And this study essentially took 4000 healthy adults..

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