Leon Fest, John Roderick, Rosa Cruzan discussed on Omnibus! With Ken Jennings and John Roderick
He's very interested. In like millenarian movements and apocalyptic movements were disproven immediately. Are there a lot of people that are well. I guess there are hundreds of millions of people that are interested in true as we also on the left behind show like like half of america just assumes that there are very specific predictions about the end of the world that are inevitably going to come true in that you should make bad art about. I'm always fascinated that there aren't more leon fest. Inkers like a failed prophecy. Seems like a thing that we should be teaching in the schools. The problem was all the cases are in the distant past which is a difficult for a social psychologist to study because records are fragmentary like he writes about Sabotage which is seventeenth century jewish messianic movement which which ended abruptly when the sultan of constantinople the ottoman sultan captured the guy at the self proclaimed messiah and forced into convert to islam troy. Jail didn't do it that the movement kept going but Of the forced conversion islam really cut down his shirt. You your interest. Sure it for the in america. Most famously you've got the miller rights of the nineteenth century these. I guess started in ohio preacher who read one particular verse of the bible and said hey if this number of i two years and if this scripture was actually from the the year five eighty seven as i now believe that means the world will end in around eighteen forty three eight hundred forty four depending on how the of the jewish calendar right and people went nuts for this new englanders stopped planting their crops and the ones with crop stopped harvesting their crops because why bother eighteen forty three to forty four and to the world right there and i don't want our listeners. Probably don't remember what you're the world ended. It's probably to them. The difference between actual data eighteen forty three is rounding air but spoilers the world did not end in eighteen forty three or forty four right and the movement abruptly fell apart but there are no social psychologists around. It'd be like hey what's with you guys right. This was before bo peep. You followed halley's comet into outer space. That was the eighties. Hail comet hale bop bop and the heaven's gate the heaven's gate cult right right and so back then one thing. We may not remember about the early days of the saucer is there was a weird religious overlay to us there because people it was all a blending it seems like a john roderick show at the time there were just a whole lot of surging currents of rosa cruzan ism christian mysticism diaz affi and is that. Is that an impression of me john. what's he sounds tinged but this is This is what's happening to people who were into religion. And know maybe the apocalyptic angle or maybe the just the mystical angle suddenly find themselves getting more and more this and you would think an opposite impulse to either be getting more and more mystic and getting into a cult stuff or getting more and more science and getting into the saucer men but in fact often. It's all one thing. Wow i just assumed that it was all airforce. Pilots were always like a science based cult. Nah methodists okay. It was paul. Go on putting wacky f scott fitzgerald and his. But you didn't expect that his declining years no one's dead already. Yeah there were no second acts that guy because of all the cocktails now in his nineteen forty five or nineteen thirty six essay. The crackup he famously road the test of a first rate intelligence is the ability to hold to opposed idea in the mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function. You've brought out. That was that was fitzgerald. I that that feels like something that you see stenciled on the wall in elementary schools now facebook memes may be interpreted that quote i only have. I read intelligence to oppose ideas in mind and keep going. I mean it does feel a little bit like a counter to people shouting both sides at boomers as a way of saying okay boomer. The of both sides in scare quotes. It's a counter argument to be able to understand not only the virtues of your own opinion but the other ideology and the opposing right you can. I mean it doesn't mean that you see you ascribe to opposing viewpoints. But just that you can hold two of them in your mind without coming apart. And i think that's how it's often used in fitzgerald's essay in context. He kind of sees it as a dichotomy between different parts of the mind between for example realizing that things are bad and yet still having hope or working to make them better like there's a the emotional or spiritual component to your to your goals despite the gloomy factuality in my case not believing in ghosts on one hand and also leaving the lights on anytime. I spend the night in vermont farmhouse while the core gets used to show. The human mind is a complicated place where you can't pretend you have some over arching architecture. The architecture may in fact be the illusion that in fact you have all these weird impulses many of which contradict right and your just trying to whoever the you is whatever. The overriding conscious is just trying to create some sense of order out of that. That gets you functioning. Unfortunately fitzgerald uses that language that my my dad's family always used a first rate a first rate intelligence which just sort of discredits the whole because it feels. They were all extremely racing. Just ever -nology so festinger is very interested in this idea of how these two what happens. When these two too inconsistent ideas collide the are sure that the world is going to end on a certain date in eighteen. Forty three and then spoilers. The sun comes up on tuesday right on january first nineteen or eighteen forty four and for a while by the way the miller. I ended up pushing kicking the can. They're like well the jewish calendar very confusing. Maybe it's december. Okay now taking forty four. But the jewish keller is very confusing in our in our defense So there was a lot of this and it ended up the end result of this whole thing was the movement class. But we got seventy adventists out of it. Oh thank goodness. Dentists movement is kind of the the remnants of militarism and they're still kicking the can down the road. Apparently the calendars very computerworld. They think they've left behind that kind of Specific kind of millenarian ism. But but yeah i mean. That's the thing about prophecy. It will eventually be falsifiable. We do have adventist future. Ling's because we've heard from them. They're all in loma linda and they gather every saturday. No not saturday. Gather every sunday which is just a regular day and they listened to the show right now..