Stefan Clark, Dr Malo, March County discussed on This American Life
Slash American ZipRecruiter, the smartest way to hire. To smack knife my glass each. You're gonna program, of course, which is some theme from different kinds of stories on that theme today, show crime scenes in the stories they tell. So today's episode for years ago, but in putting together the rerun, we all realised here we did actually have a question about crime scenes. The comes from stuff that's been in the news recently. Bennett a mile. I'm our forensic apologised Anura pathologist after Stefan. Kark was shot by Sacramento police back in March county. Coroner did the official autopsy for the state. The family also hired a well-known for men's pathologist named Bennett Ahmadu to do an autopsy for them, and he announces findings at this press conference. If you remember that case Stefan Clark was unarmed twenty two years old shot by police multiple times. Analysis came up before the county coroner's and it was definitive about a number of things though. A total of eight gun show ones meaning got he was heat eight Willie's I shot a Maui said, hit Stefan Clark on the side, and then spun him around to his back was to the officers. Then six of the shots were to his back as a different story than the police had told. We said he was advancing towards them when they fired. So. Proposition hospital price sent. That he was sailing. The officers is inconsistent. With the failing forensic evidence weeks later, the county released its report. It was different. Dr. Mao is reporting some significant ways. I, it said there were seven bullets, not eight. It said only three shots to the back, not six. And the first shot county said it was probably to his thigh and the car probably was walking towards the officers when it happened, and we wondered here to show how could something so basic be in dispute the number of shots, whether they entered from the back from the front. Does that indicate the one of the autopsies deliberately spinning the results or these actual honest scientists said, we disagreeing about the evidence in front of them. Last doctor, Judy melanin veteran forensic pathologist does autopsies in San Francisco, and she said these kinds of discrepancies happen all the time. When there were two autopsies of the same person said in these kinds of cases, the fish. Topsy the coroner's office usually happens first and then the family gets to do their autopsy after that. That's true. Even though the family usually goes public with their results, I as happened in this case. So Dr mullenix says picture, okay, two autopsies but two doctors. The first autopsy done by the coroner's office alters the body and changes the evidence. So it makes it a lot more difficult for the second pathologist. When the second pathologist gets the body, it's already been washed clean. So it doesn't have any bloodstains trace residue. The first pathologists already cut open the body as already removed the bullets. So when Dr Malo got the body, he didn't have the bullets anymore. They had been taken out by the first autopsy and he didn't have access to the rays of the body from the first autopsy, which would to show him where the bullets had been. He also didn't have the organs in their proper orientation in the body. The organs had been taken out by the previous autopsy pathologist and sliced up to. To identify the wound tracks and then put in a plastic bag inside the body cavity. So the first pathologist has that advantage because they got the body pristine and it wasn't altered in this way. Melanie says that could be lots of disagreement, and it can be honest disagreement between pathologists. They are people looking at different sets of data, so they come to different conclusions. So, and with that, we have arrived at three of our program at three return to the scene of the crime. You know this, this truism in detective fiction that a criminal always returns to the scene of the crime. It turns out in real life that actually is not very common at all, except among arsonists arsonist apparently like to see the fires they've set. And then some of them are actually caught when police look at pictures taken of crowds at fires, and then this is rare. Maybe not. Nobody really keeps track of this kind of thing. They're the people who circle back to the scene of the crimes to undo to raise something earliest promise that it's never going to happen. Again..