An interest in public service But hit all my professional jobs before santa about were in ohio snows local government and then the education you. You attended university down here in this area. Or how did education bring you clearly started at the started at a regional campus of kent state university. been moved up to the main campus finished. An undergrad at can say university Did my graduate work and ohio. State university did a law degree at capital university and did special training at a couple of other schools including harvard at the kennedy school for local government And when was the first time you saw santa bill in the eighty dollars working for a suburb of columbus. Ohio called worthington. Ohio and even then. There is a number of people from the kamba sir suburbs including people at the worthington city hall. That would vacation down here and they said how nice it was and how much they liked it. So that was the first time i came down to visit and you just came down for a vacation in the winter came down. Yeah one time. Business spring By myself and then. I brought some college roommates back once. And then the my father died relatively young so my mother and i came down the the winner that he had passed away during those holidays. And so those are my first revisits and then it was probably another two or three decades before his back against. Do you recall from those first visits. First impressions i well was her causeway. Then or how far back in time the causeway on that All of golf dry was not pay too. I remember a lot of seashells beautiful beaches. If you get off a plane in northeast if you get on a plane in northeast. Ohio and you exit in a winner down here. They're certainly something even more magical than if used to it during the summer. Day and so Just remembered good weather good times and just the the entire natural beauty of the place when you are visiting that earlier period where you sort of making a note to yourself that someday i wanna come back here and live here and work here. We did that. Just be that was just kind of serendipitous. The way fab well the city manager that Were was a longtime when a longest-serving city managers in ohio. Dave elder for more than ten his family had been coming every spring break to santa bell before the causeway. So i would always hear his reports and i worked for a mayor in cleveland. Ohio as truth staff and he decided after many successful terms to not run for re election in my den fire chief came in and said you have pictures on your desk from some sets on santa bell. Did you hear. They're looking for a city manager. We were all looking for jobs in and Got me called up. They were down to the final five but um was able to get in the pool and then over. The next couple of weeks emerged as the finalists. They'd had some terminus times before that. The city managers in the five years before i arrived. So i didn't know of i definitely didn't think i would necessarily be here for twenty years but I thought well worst case. I'll get a good tan. It'd be back up north but Ended up being a lot longer. Tenure you owe a debt to that Was fire chief. That gave you the tip. Yep and he now is retired and lives in benito estero area actually. Yeah and this was back in two thousand one or late Two thousand one. Actually i accepted the position the week of nine one one. I said yes. Be early in the week and then by that by for the week was out nine. One one occurred so it was kind of a difficult time to be moving and transitioning but Many people had things much worse happening that week so oh for sure. Yeah i use the word magical. I've seen effect in that Southern living magazine. There's there's words like that that And i certainly use words like that. When i tell my new england why why do you think it has any affect. What what what are the. What's the equation. That seems to so frequently lead us to talk about this island as magical or enchanted something better than just. Oh what a great vacation spot. Something a little extra. Well i tell people it's still much more than just a dot on the map. We are world class travel destination. Were almost on. Everyone's list of best beaches are best donate destinations for bucket. List to see in your lifetime type of thing. But i think it's the sense of community and the uniqueness that gives people that sense of the somewhere more special and i think at least in my last two decades we have a great gratitude to our civic leaders and founders who did so much to protect the community and if you just go off island there's some very nice communities and towns but you really now that the development off island continues in this region you see the contrast of the nato protected status santa bell and the more Manicured You know of in the subtropics when you when you don't protect that nato's grounds and wildlife and all the things that we do here. But i think if if you live here for short time you realize and for people who stay like you have for more than that one week or so you get that sense of community you know. I'd say over the last few years before our pandemic. it's very common at city hall that we did a lot of calls before the fourth of july or the holidays saying. What do the people on santa bell do for the fourth of july whether the people on santa bell do for christmas. What do they do for easter. And they people come here and they wanna live that whatever they see is at santa bell lifestyle and they want to become immersed into the community there for a week or a day. They want to go to the farmer's market and they want to go to bailey's and they wanna you know they they they want to feel