Soviet Union, Brock Obama, Donald Trump discussed on Vox's The Weeds

Vox's The Weeds


Royalty to the state. And I think that that's kind of why we saw so much emphasis on it. During the Bush era like turning nine eleven into patriot day bushy in conservatism really was loyalty to the state that had a Kapatid's view of the nation. Right. But and that's perfectly compatible with whatever because like, you could Jewish American could be patriotic American. And I think in most cases absolutely is right. But what what does nationalism as opposed to patriotism mean in America? Right. Because we don't like what could it possibly mean? It it's interesting because you know, Stalin, his theory of how the Soviet Union was to work is he made and some of the people within stones made the analogy to an apartment building. So every culture would have your -partment you'd have like you could wear your national dress, and you could speak a variation of your national language, but. You know, the Soviet Union is the concierge the Soviet Union owns the building the Soviet Union controls the front door, the Soviet Union controls like who gets in and who gets out, and that was how how nationalism within the Soviet Union was supposed to be kind of limited and constructed one that didn't work, and that kind of fell away to some extent and resulted in a lot of tragedy and turmoil. But also, this idea that nationalism is something that you can put into a box and control has never been true that has never worked at and we're we we see the ramifications not just in Europe, but see the ramifications in Africa's well where you see a conceptualization of what it yet. We saw pan-africanism which is a movement of people in the nineteen fifties and nineteen sixties during the independence movements new crew and others who are voicing this ID like African countries can come together and that movement, then sort of shifted and you see an. Individual African countries idea that we want to reject westernization. We want to reject what we believe to be western influence, which is why in countries like Tanzania, you are seeing that on this coming Monday people want to start reporting LGBT people that they know to the state and you saw that in Burundi as well. And you see that in other countries where this idea that there is something apart at something western about LGBTQ people. And so I think that this idea that nationalism is something that can be kept controlled or kept under a certain aegis of okay, you can be a nationalist. But up until this point where it's safe for everyone. I don't know if that's ever been historically true. I think that generally it is true that you don't get to control the passions you inspire when those passions rely on the sense of collective enough ability invulnerability that happens when you get people together in large crowds fee. Feeling the crowds are the important part like something that just got clarified for me. And what you're saying. Jane is for all the talk about how Brock Obama was so powerful as speaker because of the positiveness of his rhetoric like that's fair. But Donald Trump's rhetoric to his followers is very positive winning. Now, we've never been winning before everything. So great. It's also the Obama made it clear that he was inspiring people on an individual level that he was like as kind of transcendent as the vibe that often happened like early Obama rallies where like people would faint, and that kind of thing often was the actual rhetoric was you as an individual person part of the American story in the actions that you as an individual person, take matter and that mitigates substantially collective mentality of somebody at one of those rallies. Whereas if you're saying the reason that this is a special experience because everybody here is to. -gether which is the vibe that the kind of repeat frump rally goers, really go for is the right? You know, it's all RT, and that makes it really special. You don't get to control where that ends. You. Don't get to control who is defined as outside of that team. And how far people are willing to go. And like that's not just a Trump problem. It's not just a conservative problem. I don't even know that it's just a nationalist problem..

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