Cancer, Sixteen Years, One Pt discussed on Everything Happens with Kate Bowler


I'm people and this is everything happens i've always been obsessed with time but i think i'm getting worse whenever i think about cancer all i picture is a clock and i start to feel a little frantic how they might get everything done when it's my neck scan and then i look at my son my beautiful snake obsessed side kick and i worry am i doing enough shouldn't have already started learning piano isis going by so quickly tech tech and then sorry mom and dad if you're listening to this but the fragility of my own health makes me completely obsessed my parents now that they're getting older how we take in all the trips we need to take how we said what we needed to say see i'm a monster and the weird thing is time isn't sexed time isn't just last hours and minutes it could be a blink or eternity ask any woman who had a baby oh you know exactly how many hours you were in labor or if you're with their mom who has dementia or you're son with autism who loves his rituals these are different clocks altogether we keep time differently depending on are season of life for personalities are experiences but also depending on are abilities and disabilities are possibilities and limitations today i'm speaking with doctor john swinton he is in are deigned minister and a professor impractical theology and pastoral care at the university of aberdeen he is a prolific the author and leading expert in the field of disability theology as well as the founder of the center for spirituality health and disability john i'm so grateful that were speaking today no friends you remember this and i'm looking forward to i'm so curious you were not always theologian or minister but you were a mental health nurse for sixteen years how did that dry you into what you do now that's true i was on a it's really strange because when you look back at your life and try workout what god wants from you it very often makes no sense whatsoever so the way i try to make sense of my stream of present as it for most most of my life my nest in life i kinda hung around the people who see the world differently so i spend a lotta time with people with mental health challenges people with intellectual disabilities people with dementia and when you hang around with people who see the world definitely for long enough you start to see the world differently yourself so that kind of ships and four on the way in which i i look at things and then another way in which i understand myself in the world and when i came in the eulogy it should have been i dunno in nineteen eighty name probably early nineties that became a place of vocation good i began to think well you know i've done all these things and i've thought about these things i do understand that within the perspective of foot gold is and who human beings are before go estimate formation turned into my vocation yeah and so these two things are although they're really different and and sometimes this and then an absolute necessarily it means the theologian i bring certain questions to the table that perhaps just like just come to school had come through a different route i wouldn't have been asking so mysterious germany's are when i'm sick of them actually i think there's some continuity between these nuts and years and years well you do seem really focused on these big questions not just to we are when were well but then who we are when we aren't i i find that people tell me about their fears a lot and one of the most common ones i hear people saying that they're really afraid that they're gonna lose who they are whether it's the illness or injury or disability why so frightening to people i think it's difficult when you see a particular sharply in issues in brain damage and something like dementia where people at more afraid of dementia then they are of cancer for example and the reason for that is exactly as you say that the people think that this particular condition takes away you're identity and the reason we were saying that way is because we we assume that's the way in which makes sense sales as a pass no not if it's something that we do by ourselves and so when people use language like you know he or she is not the passion they used to be what they're really saying is that they no longer can tell the story they use detail tell them so you get the idea of self as another biographical self but as long as you can tell you a story of where you've been where you are and where you're gonna be in the future then you are who you are but if you tell a story story when you used to be people who use that language you'll she's used to be that reminds me of 'em on each in care facility that i heard out where on the doors that there were life stories about the patients written there so that nurses and anyone who came in could could tell the story of who that person was beyond just like the pills and the regiment and the changing of the sheets and according to the people who work there it really it really shaped tape holiday cared for the people and maybe even how they loved them it does nothing but what that does is it gives bodey a context and so you know as a professional caregivers come in very late and somebody story and it's very easy for them to only see what they could they see the same of difficulty with a time of change and what that kind of thing does it remains this is a passion with a history of passion who is love many people and be loved by many people and continues to be loved by many people but what it also does is opens up the possibility that that passion is the future is one of the things sometimes concerns me in particular in listen to something like dementia is the solution is that what is important is oh is that just past bottom that which is present that pushes to come in the future i said i think that kind of the remainder of who you are known case a passion as a pass within a history but also says well what could we do since you especially a good future possibilities even in the midst of this group is injured you latest book becoming friends of time has a lovely i would say defense of of thinking about the limits in gift the time so what are some of the limits of the ways that like i mean i'm kind of a monster when it comes to like efficiency unscheduled limit of this way of thinking about time you mean you push the limits of you're monstrosity be really about me that'd be the biggest one of the things i do push into and that is the way in which came as constructed in different context in different coaches even so no people walk more quickly in new york and the do in paris if a different understanding of what famous but see logical time attain the gold has is really interesting because the way this august in talks about time he is he says the payments is deeply disrupted and you could see how much it overwhelms is sometimes son keep the sheduled inside of keep the time so much so we ended up with depression anxiety in all sorts of difficulties with particular with the western and cultures so keen to work you know quote gorge relationship as west time because he he thinks if goes in implicated in time than a coach injuries in good conscience 'cause he's he's he's changeless in august so he he just knows that is by coming to the conclusion that came came into existence when god created the world so time is a creature is something the power of creation and so when creation foles taking photos which is why we have so much difficulty birth control in time and with control in us and the essence of what he says we need to redeem time and put it to his purposes in other words begin to recognize some of the ways we think about tame in terms of punctuality in tasks may be important and ultimately we need to get things done but ultimately time has a different purpose a different way of helping daughter to participate in in god's creation of the world in that sense and i think claiming that back is is really important and that's why something i learned a lot from working along say people with intellectual show disability still example because you have to slow down and take time for those things at the world considered to be trivial because of you moving quickly in that context then you'll see nothing but if you slow down and recognize the significance of the moment understood ignificant so slowness of nuts since then you see a whole lot of things you could never see if you're a living a life of speed when we're talking about people at dimension particular can you give me just a sense sense of what kind of time they lead in an at what it takes from people around until late in that time without him yeah well normally think of him as as lindy and progressive moving from one pt the history to the next piece of history but when you get to that stage in your life where you living with dementia that mood of pain or being able to tense time to the past or present a future that is no longer available to you i saw the present it becomes extremely important to be with people in the moment is really really profoundly important which is something that we never do all of this qena driven by a particular understanding ataman owes watching the clock her was planning for the future it's very difficult to slow down and just fighting in that space within the prison but i see precisely the space you need to in the hobbit if you're gonna be a long say people were advised mention i i don't think i thought a lot about slowing down until i was forced to slow down and then it was like miserably slow it was like the the space between scams and just seeing inability tillis in future tense forced me to notice things but that was one of the most intense educations that i've ever received in figuring out what to love has now there's like a weird weird there's a weird slowness specially so i try to do this thing where everyday notice notice what the big moment as an owner always something hilarious my son has done where i would start have a meeting a very important meeting and i was on my phone he's in his little jammies and he crawled up on my lap he looked deeply into my eyes and he whispered now time to talk about this hurts of course roy cohn tiny talk about wizard of us grew i've been taught that there's good things to be found if you really can't just slow it down a bit yeah and i think the men in your situation it wasn't in for slowness so they're kinda kinda grieving process to go through fbi you're you're grieving for the speed the type of team that you're familiar with and you find yourself cast into this world of slowness which it is not the same thing as old as being in that world which you know many many people have seen from his that's just one of lebron but when you cast into that you have to you have to leave you recognize there's something loss before you confined the joy that moment where it says liquor essentially just son is a very wise little fella another reason why i'm so glad that were talking today is because if friendship in love the late john yang right one incredible guy from people who maybe haven't heard of him would you mind just giving a little a little snapshot of who he was and and the life he left vani 'em is the former of what's known as the largest community purchase french for they are at a place of safety in in a way it was originally is what you're saying but johnny began his life in the navy in the canadian navy so what's interesting is it.

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