Mozart, Bach, Jordan Peterson discussed on The Portal

The Portal


I think I started when I was eleven or twelve. Yeah I quit like around the time. I was seventeen because I went to college. And your musicianship Informed you in terms of what the structure of Music Zik really is at its deepest level of strong opinions about Music and culture. I was always terrible on guitar. I wanted to learn different fields of music and I thought to do that. You need to play something understand basics of music music theory cords. Whatever so? I did a bit like classical jazz blues every different and kind of guitar just a bit to have an entry point into the world of music it was never a player impress people right ever played for people and was never good but I could play okay the notes of a song to see how it fit together okay. There is a kind of relativism that has descended over musical taste. Where every time I say as something is better than something else I run into somebody instantaneously telling me I've committed like I? I get a traffic citation. That you can't say You know that that box is much more important or better than SCARLATTI. And I just don't understand this complete abdication of any role in which you know informed judgment Plays a role that we have to have issues of tastes that the say this is better than that. And then you're allowed to take a you're allowed to take a heterodox position on that Eh. But we should be passing along our tastes in our prejudice and exposing it to discussion with other people rather than just finding relativists. Mush Roy and I think the relativists often don't mean it what they're really saying is on objective grounds like challenge the status of the person making this proclamation and I will challenge the status by not accepting the judgment. But they're not actually claiming that all doors and they used to relativistic. I don't think of post modern relativism or these booking and the way Jordan Peterson says I've never bought that argument and Peterson's exchange with Zeke and their debate. I thought Peterson lost that part. The debate Most people are objective. ISTS whether they admit it or not. Let's just say what we think is correct and debate it and David Hume in the mid Eighteenth Century Torri wrote some wonderful essays on standards of taste in the test of time I think he was essentially correct. That matters of the aesthetics are not objective active in the same way that matters of fact are that you can measure and confirm them but nonetheless there is something about the judgments that informed people make that expresses an interest subjective validity and it can be debated and judged and it's one of the things we here on earth to do so tight wonderful music. What moves what moves your soul in music well start with classical music my completely orthodox so Bach Mozart? Beethoven Brahms I'm quite fond of contemporary classical music or mid twentieth century. Anybody who isn't in the acknowledged highest highest echelon. I don't think so. I think my tastes are so remarkably close to what you would call the cannon in these particular areas that they're boring Do Do you think I find a lot of music before Bach may be somewhat overrated. So Palestina is an important composer. When I listen to it I just don't enjoy it as much as I the post to defect Yom D'Amato it's fine? I don't know just Ken to pray I like it. I don't love it. Anything from that period period. Okay is fine in a slightly under impressed manner. Do you think I think with Monteverdi. And then Bach things explode and become marvelous and amazing. Even temperament is really the the central Is that Ground Zero for for the specific beauty of Western music. I think it saw development of instruments through capitalism and markets and growth of the middle class and having more people experiment playing and composing posing. Pianos become much. Better string instruments become much battery of the Modern Orchestra you have actual audiences and the interplay of those forces as supposed to music. Being more in the church may be closer to pure vocal music. I just think it's much better and almost everyone in their heart knows that. Yeah Uh yeah that tell me the no no no. I'm I'm actually. I'm processing in real time excites you and classical music. I think Haydn's under somewhat underrated closer to Mozart Mozart than people want to admit. Yeah durable Gosh I mean I guess. I- Mozart is amazing peaks but a significant portion of what Mozart road is boring. Younger works are mostly boring. I I often feel that I must have a hole in my soul because of the amount of Mozart. That doesn't is land that I hear all of these people describing Mozart is this you know exact- exactly perfect balance. And there's something about the language that I find Somewhat repellent so that. I'm less likely to get along with people who are bananas over over Mozart. If somebody's nobody's very clear about Bah like boxes like heroin. It's an addiction. You can't just can't get enough of the stuff. I relate to that much more often. Say that there are mathematicians nations who will claim that Bach isn't their favorite composer. And I never believe them. But you know take Mozart symphonies which are obviously chronological twenty-nine is quite good. And then not until you know maybe thirty six you could say thirty three thirty four but before twenty nine. They're just boring if they were somehow all gone. I don't think there'd be any great loss so most of Mozart that good. I don't think it detracts from him but even with boxers extreme selection in which Baku hear. You don't hear most of the todd is very much most of them are boring. Yeah that was the main thing he created. So there's some of that in johann-sebastian as well exonerate him mm-hmm from the board and charge altogether Christmas. Oratorio it's pretty good. It's not an incredible work so even Saint John's passion. It's quite good but not as good as B minor mass or Saint Matthews Passion Right. So there's extreme selection in the Bach. You're hearing and thinking about I you know the funny thing for me is is that I had to swim upstream from SEGOVIA 's translation of Spanish Piano Music Onto Guitar I didn't realize is that there was an entire world of Spanish Piano Music Where the guitar wasn't originally thought of necessarily as a as a concert door art music instrument it was more of a folk instrument and so that's been the huge well of Of interest for me like listening listening to Albany's on on Pianos Amazing Alicia dealer. Rocha right. She's a wonderful performer of that but the guitar music I find it very interesting to take some more modern like ambient music like Brian Eno or the whole movement from the nineteen seventies and. Listen in think through what was going on there right and then go back to earlier Guitar Music Baroque but also the Spaniards and listen to it through that Lens and it just comes alive in a completely new with Robert Frith. It was evacuated of clearly vic wayland music or something like that and I've never traced. Ny felt that Are you you. So I'm a big fan of what is misleadingly. Called World Music. Just listening to as many different musics as you can kind of figuring out there logics and then going back applying it to what you already knew from rock and roll or classical music or jazz and seeing it all you know quite a new are you. That's a very high productivity activity. Are you interested interested in in music. Sure of course. So when I found Muneer Bashir In Iraq I just my my jaw dropped. I thought this was such gorgeous stuff and then and I sort of made my way to Minerva. She furry trash who I think is unbelievable. And eventually I was listening in this Middle Eastern idiom and I hear him start to play with Blues and rock and roll on the mood and it was fascinating watching somebody from Iraq and who'd studied in Europe. Of course watching you there's a for example in at Stanford University there's this Garden which I think has Master carvings from Polynesia Indonesia and there's versions of Rodin Gates of hell in the thinker in this Polynesian or or or Indonesia idiom and it's just fascinating to see oneself regarded by the other. Sometimes I think the more interesting question is which music don't you like and to think through those so I'm going to ask you Eric. What music do you really not like Arcand to and you think just bad or wrong somehow I have trouble with music that doesn't allow us to impart more emotion because it's too highly produced. I am pretty sure that has to do with the emotion because I find Jimi Hendrix Very emotional I found that shares believe where she uses the auto tune function as an instrument rather than as a correcting of the human voice to be very emotional But when I hear very like computer oriented dirty and you name a name what are you reject point the finger not cheese. Do I have to you have to. It's your podcast cast and I hope the person isn't listening. Well I guess there was a time when I didn't like Amy Stewart's version in of knock on wood which was a great piano? R&B Song Because I found that it was so oh highly overproduced that I just couldn't cut into it That that had to do with the disco influence. I'm choosing things now that I really disliked like but I've sort of May become around because I find no look you find something in just about everything that you listen listen to. It's very hard to create music. That's completely devoid of interest. And so if I spend more time with something even if it's really really bad I'll be able to find something in that. Well that's why it became famous. And that's why that's why it's being listened to I. I've been down on. EDM TO BE. I don't think that I've some point. We had a car ride with a friend and I said let's put on songs. We can single with person puts on some idiom. There was nothing close close to a campfire song inside of it. I found that kind of sad you buy into electronic dance music heavy metal. I meant to say heavy metal. such as maybe. There's a lot of artistry so I asked Ted Joy this when I did my conversation with Tyler podcast with him. He's one of my favorite music. Critics are brilliant guy. You should should have him on but I asked him heavy metal I said underrated overrated and he said well it's underrated but I couldn't get him to admit that he actually listen to it. And you want to go there I think it's underrated from technical musicianship. And I think it's often overrated in terms of what it does to Heart Paul Gilbert. That's exactly what he said in other word. Okay so Paul. Gilbert has a beautiful riff on this. He's a you know obviously fantastic guitars. But he says you can take a great Blues Guitar Guitarist. Teach them A lot of scales and turn them into a shredder of devoid of interest but with fantastic technical chops..

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