Anwar Ibrahim, Malaysia, Mai Mai Mai Mai discussed on Morning Edition

Automatic TRANSCRIPT

I'm David green. And I'm Steve Inskeep. We have the story of a man behind an advance in democracy. He's a politician in Malaysia which effectively had one party rule that changed when the opposition won election last year, causing a peaceful transfer of power democracy may be retreating elsewhere but not in Kuala Lumpur. Here's how CNN sounded after national elections there last may celebrations across Malaysia as a new political era. Don's aftershock result in the national elections. To your Muhammed claimed victory after beating all the odds to snazzy Brazelle and the coalition party which ruled Malaysia for over six decades. Did that happen? We have the story of that change in power through the eyes of a man who spent years in prison for his politics and has now risen to leadership Anwar Ibrahim came by our studios over the last two decades. He was jailed repeatedly by other politicians and had reason to think he might never get out. But I'm incredibly an incorrigible optimist Anwar is seventy one he has dark hair and a salt and pepper goatee. The lines on his face around. His eyes hint at the stress of his captivity for years, he suffered the fate of many Malaysian opposition figures. He does not just the solitary confinement known as papers, no radio, nor television. You'd have anybody to talk to no book books. Yes. They gave you a book. What is your read? What's book that you read? Is there some way I reread the entire works of Shakespeare? Inequality. Stay wrote a book about economic inequality. Yes. Yes. That's a thick one. Because there's an advantage being in prison. He was able to finish the book. Here's how his life began to change. The ruling party that jailed him was engulfed in corruption scandals opposition grew and then a former ruling party leader montier Mohammed switched sides and took charge of the opposition coalition. Then he visited the imprisoned Anwar Ibrahim and asked him to serve as his deputy. The manifesto was clear Melissa must emerge as a mature democracy. There's no turning back. So the media must be free judiciary must be independent and anti corruption commission must be effective while it's early yet. Anwar Ibrahim says the first step toward healthy democracy is freeing up the media, he's helping to repeal and old sedition law. The government used to imprison people like him. But many others tousands others. I mean, relatively unknown, but they did suffer. Says that they will be charged prosecute and imprison for things that they express. I mean, we may agree or disagree. But I do think is our business to charge a charge and imprison them for their views. The man on top is my dear this man from the old regime. Yes. Which sites do you yourself expect to be prime minister of Malaysia with the agreement. Stipulates very clearly that Mugabe will hold office for maximum two years, which means school soon. I miss to sue the premission. Okay. So after that two year period, you take over as prime minister, and you may have another two to three years, and then you will face the people. I guess how will we know if you have succeeded at the end of that five year period. I'm optimistic because people want freedom is supposed to a more oppressive rule in the past. Secondly, if they know that the disasters the countries not squandered by the political elite, then the services and the benefits of the people will be larger there must be people who say, oh, he was an opposition leader. But now he sold out. He's with his former boss strew, infect MAI MAI MAI MAI daughter was vice chairman one device to have the party. Listen to resign. Because she thought that we are not as assertive in qualify for your daughter. Yes, was effectively critical of you, which I think yes, I mean, I would have to balance between the practical realities in terms of adjustments in this period of transition, and the fact that the young. Would want to have more assertive and consistent message. And I I find dick difficulty to dispute views a position all do. I sit patients is also a virtue. So you told her actually I think you're right about the facts. But I just have a different attitude about. We have fish after all because she said we have stuck over twenty years in and out of prison. The whole family was just shut it. But she says the idealistic youth, but she still supportive, but she's very critical. Does Malaysia need the United States? Yes. I think. I make no apologies. We need to Steve's usable vigorous progressive foreign policy. I'm I cannot see that we to hopeful of the present position of foreign policy states. Although personal cases you see from the days of President Clinton Bush Obama and less on the Trump might you. She was always raced at different levels. I shall a novice standing that the general attitude towards promoting democracy, of course, have been relegated to the background. And that is to me unfortunate. You must encourage countries with your Powell and resources to support efforts towards peace. See killed at the end democracy. You cannot be ambivalent talking about democracy, and they're supporting all the titans and dictate this of the world. So when you see the Trump administration grow even closer to Saudi Arabia, which the US has always been close to or even closer to the option military backed regime. This bothers you have no issues of countries having bilateral relations, three I'm not suggesting that we go to war with every country. But the position must be clear. Why do you choose selective condemnation or some countries for being corrupt and oppressive and some countries worse corrupt and oppressive continued to be offense. I'm Abraham.

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